Understanding Estate Planning
Explore the fundamentals of estate planning and learn how to make informed decisions for your future.
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[00:00:00.44] UNIDENTIFIED CO. REPRESENTATIVE: This session is closed to the press. Welcome to the JP Morgan webcast. This is intended for informational purposes only. Opinions expressed herein are those of the speakers and may differ from those of other JP Morgan employees and affiliates. Historical information and outlooks are not guarantees of future results. Any views and strategies described may not be appropriate for all participants and should not be intended as personal, investment, financial, or other advice. As a reminder, investment products are not FDIC insured, do not have bank guarantee, and they may lose value. The webcast may now begin.
[00:00:39.60] [UPBEAT MUSIC]
[00:00:54.00] JORDAN SPRECHMAN: Hi, everybody. My name is Jordan Sprechman. I am the practice lead of the US Wealth Advisory practice in the JP Morgan Private Bank. I am joined again by my friend and colleague Gigi Orta. Gigi is a wealth advisor in the San Francisco Bay Area, and we are back to talk about estate plans. The last time, we spoke about estate planning. This time, we're going to talk about the mechanics of implementing your estate planning and putting all of the plumbing in place to make sure that your estate plan works for you.
[00:01:27.09] Is it fair to say, Gigi, that one of the biggest hangups that a lot of clients that we run into have is that they just don't how to start on getting their estate plan done?
[00:01:40.75] GIGI ORTA: Yes, absolutely.
[00:01:43.59] JORDAN SPRECHMAN: And just for argument's sake, for anybody who's read the article that was just published, we define it as estate plan, basically, as a coordinated set of legal, tax, and financial arrangements designed to ensure that your assets and the control rights that you have get transferred upon your death to the people you want them to get them transferred to, right?
[00:02:11.81] GIGI ORTA: Absolutely.
[00:02:12.38] JORDAN SPRECHMAN: So why is it so important for people to have an estate plan?
[00:02:19.54] GIGI ORTA: Well, the first thing I will tell you is that most people will say, I haven't done my estate planning yet. I don't have a plan in place. And to that I say, yes do.
[00:02:28.18] JORDAN SPRECHMAN: And why do you tell them that.
[00:02:29.72] GIGI ORTA: Well, there's a couple of reasons. One is that if you have put a beneficiary designation on a retirement account, that is an estate plan. That is you telling the institution that holds that account exactly where you want the money to go on your death. That is an estate plan.
[00:02:44.90] The other thing is that every state has a default plan for its citizens. I'm in California. And if I haven't done my own estate planning, if I don't have a plan in place, the state has one for me.
[00:02:57.78] JORDAN SPRECHMAN: And so really in estate plan consists of, it sounds like, a bunch of documents, beneficiary designations, wills, trusts-- in California, revocable trusts are quite common-- and other documents as well. And what are some of those other documents?
[00:03:20.25] GIGI ORTA: The other documents would be things like powers of attorney, because there is a chance that someone is not totally dead, but mostly dead. And in that case, we need a set of documents that allows somebody else to make your financial decisions, your medical decisions, basically do everything that you would do if you had capacity in the event you don't.
[00:03:44.33] JORDAN SPRECHMAN: So if I put together a checklist-- and I'm going to go back for a second. So the elements of an estate plan, you've got beneficiary designations, a will or a trust, certainly a revocable trust and maybe other trusts as well, powers of attorney for financial decisions, powers of attorney for medical decisions.
[00:04:12.36] And by the way, the terms that I just used aren't necessarily the terms that are used in every state, but every state has provisions for them. In some states, they may be called a health proxy, for instance, or something like that. Financial decision for medical, financial decision for financial. Anything else?
[00:04:31.88] GIGI ORTA: Yes, the guardianship nomination for couples with children, absolutely. Or I should say anyone with children.
[00:04:40.16] JORDAN SPRECHMAN: Now does that show up in any of the documents that I just listed, or is it a separate document? Because usually guardianship, I'll see in a will.
[00:04:47.70] GIGI ORTA: It often shows up in the will, because the guardianship nomination in theory would only be necessary upon death. But it sometimes does show up as a standalone document just called guardianship nomination. But it is a really critical component of the estate plan. And I would say it's the number one reason that parents want to do their estate planning, the reason they know they need documents in place. And it is also the number one reason people don't do it.
[00:05:15.15] JORDAN SPRECHMAN: And why is that? I mean, if it's so important, why don't people get it done?
[00:05:19.39] GIGI ORTA: Well, you don't have children. [LAUGHS] Trying to decide who is going to take custody of your minor children is one of the most difficult decisions I think parents have to make. And for most situations, there are two people making this decision together.
[00:05:38.15] JORDAN SPRECHMAN: So fair to say that mother and father might disagree, or one parent might say--
[00:05:44.79] GIGI ORTA: Mom and dad are often going to disagree on who is the best choice for the guardian of their children.
[00:05:54.29] JORDAN SPRECHMAN: And for that reason, as you say, a lot of people tend to punt that decision. They just simply don't make it. And so they never execute on their estate plan. Fair to say they are never complete it?
[00:06:05.30] GIGI ORTA: Fair to say.
[00:06:07.38] JORDAN SPRECHMAN: And so if they don't complete it and if both parents were to pass away before a minor child reaches age 18, then what happens?
[00:06:15.60] GIGI ORTA: Then it goes to the courts. But here's the thing. If you're stuck on choosing your guardians, here's what might help you a little bit. It's always going to go to the courts. You will make a nomination for your guardians, but the court will always decide, because the court has the best interest of the child in mind. And they're not going to take a child kicking and screaming to a relative's house that they don't want to go to.
[00:06:40.00] So it's very important to understand you are making a nomination. That's one of the most important pieces of the puzzle, but it is only a nomination.
[00:06:49.58] JORDAN SPRECHMAN: So again, just to go back, we got beneficiary designations. And beneficiary designations are effective only upon somebody's death.
[00:06:57.68] GIGI ORTA: Correct.
[00:06:58.02] JORDAN SPRECHMAN: Right? And usually when it comes to beneficiary designations, if you have a married couple, almost always-- almost always, not always. Almost always, the spouse is the designated beneficiary. Usually backup beneficiaries are also a good idea. And usually if you have a married couple with children, usually the children are the backup beneficiaries.
[00:07:22.65] Under a will, that again becomes effective only upon death. That's the document that's going to name who the executor is. In many cases, it'll name who the guardian is and again, the difference between California and New York. But we'll also perhaps create trust for the benefit of whoever, typically a spouse and/or children. There's a surviving spouse who may create a trust for spouse. There is no spouse would create for children.
[00:07:54.05] Let's go back to financial powers of attorney. Who's usually named? Again, is usually a spouse if there's a spouse?
[00:08:01.20] GIGI ORTA: Usually.
[00:08:03.08] JORDAN SPRECHMAN: And if there's a backup, what do people do in that case?
[00:08:07.52] GIGI ORTA: This is another place people get stuck, is who is the backup financial person? That falls under many different documents. So the funny thing about actually signing your estate plan is you're going to have 10, 15 different documents all serving a different function. It's really one big coordinated plan, but you do have to have different documents for different responsibilities. And that financial person, the person who's going to be your executor, your trustee, your agent under the power of attorney generally is the spouse if you're married.
[00:08:41.80] Coming up with the alternate can be difficult. Sometimes it's another family member, a sibling, a parent. Sometimes it's adult children. For some, people that I've worked with, they don't have anybody else, and so they will often name a private fiduciary to serve as their alternate. But it is important to have a successor.
[00:09:03.27] We're estate planners by trade, and so we have to go to worst-case scenario. So I always have to consider that the married couple dies at the same time, and they've named each other. But now what?
[00:09:19.15] JORDAN SPRECHMAN: What do you think the reasons are that people don't complete getting their estate plans finalized in our view?
[00:09:29.47] GIGI ORTA: I think it gets stuck at the individual's side. So as an estate planner, if you're hired to do an estate plan, you're going to get that set of drafts out to the clients. In my experience, that's where it gets stuck. It sits there. It's daunting. It's hundreds of pages of legal documents.
[00:09:47.93] JORDAN SPRECHMAN: And what specifically is daunting about it? Is it because there are a bunch of factors that it could be? It could be cost. It could be trying to make irrevocable decisions based on incomplete information. Is that fair to say?
[00:10:05.72] GIGI ORTA: Absolutely.
[00:10:06.70] JORDAN SPRECHMAN: Because you can change your mind. On the other hand, if you change your mind, you can change a document, right?
[00:10:13.62] GIGI ORTA: That's right.
[00:10:15.58] JORDAN SPRECHMAN: Sometimes it's a fear of trying to make-- sometimes it's just hard to make decisions, contemplating one's own demise.
[00:10:24.56] GIGI ORTA: I think what you're getting at is people don't like talking about their own death. We do it every day. I do it at breakfast. I talk about death all day, every day. And I don't like it when people use euphemisms for death. I don't like it when people say "when I move on to the next phase," because I will usually ask the question, which phase is that?
[00:10:42.06] But I do think people don't want to think about it. And so looking at this big set of documents, every one of which contemplates your own death, it's daunting for people. I think people get stuck on the decisions. As I mentioned, guardians are really hard for parents, but also who gets the money?
[00:11:01.42] For families with children, it's pretty straightforward. The kids are going to get the money. Those people get stuck on at what ages, in what manner. But if I'm working with someone who doesn't have children, it's actually really difficult for them to think about, how am I going to distribute at my estate? Who do I want to benefit?
[00:11:21.73] JORDAN SPRECHMAN: So if you were ordering it in the order of complexity or the order of ease, which people do you think are the easiest to plan for, married couples or single individuals?
[00:11:33.95] GIGI ORTA: Married couples with adult children. They're my favorite.
[00:11:36.83] JORDAN SPRECHMAN: That's easy.
[00:11:37.39] GIGI ORTA: Yes.
[00:11:37.77] JORDAN SPRECHMAN: And first marriage for both.
[00:11:38.99] GIGI ORTA: First marriage for both, children of that marriage because it's a funnel. They take care of each other. They take care of the children. Everybody is comfortable. That money is not going to go sideways. Second marriage is a little bit more difficult because if I give my assets to my second husband, is that second husband going to take care of my children, his stepchildren, after his death?
[00:12:06.48] JORDAN SPRECHMAN: And he or she may even be of a similar age as your children. It's certainly possible.
[00:12:12.70] GIGI ORTA: It's more common than you'd think.
[00:12:15.84] JORDAN SPRECHMAN: So married couples, adult children, easiest set of circumstances. What's the next easiest?
[00:12:22.74] GIGI ORTA: I think the next easiest is single people with children. Same reason. Money is flowing down the funnel. We still have to think about who's going to take care of those children. At what ages should those children get their inheritance? And I don't have the answer for everybody, as to how old your kids should be before they receive an inheritance. But I can tell you what I would have done with an inheritance at age 21.
[00:12:45.00] JORDAN SPRECHMAN: And then what's in the order of priorities? We have married with children. Single with children.
[00:12:51.54] GIGI ORTA: I think you're getting a flavor for the easiest, those with children. The more difficult estate plans are those for individuals without children.
[00:12:59.82] JORDAN SPRECHMAN: And especially, I think, at the very bottom the hardest ones are married, no children.
[00:13:06.26] GIGI ORTA: I think "married, no children" is the hardest planning. I do. And the reason is if we don't have children-- you and I are married. We don't have any children. And I leave my estate, my half of the estate to you. That's great. I have family members who I might want to benefit with my half of the money. Maybe I die very young, and I still want to give some money back to my nieces and nephews or my cousins or even some of my friends, but I've left all my money to you.
[00:13:34.38] You don't have any obligation to my family. So then we are layering in some complexity into the estate plan. Maybe I then have to create a trust for you, off of which you can live for your lifetime. But on your death, that goes back to my estate. My question is, what happens if you get remarried? Then what?
[00:13:56.22] JORDAN SPRECHMAN: Or even if I don't get remarried and don't necessarily want to abide by your wishes because people change over time. Their attitudes towards wealth change. Their attitudes towards a lot of things change. Yes, obviously, a remarriage is very important.
[00:14:12.81] One question we've talked a lot about, children, no children, other family members. Where do you find giving to charity falling into people's estate plans generally?
[00:14:27.25] GIGI ORTA: I think we see the charitable gift more often with those without children because it's a natural sort of option if you don't have any children, as to where am I going to leave my estate. Although I think with higher net worth families, those who have a significant amount of wealth don't actually want to give their children all of their money. And so they do like the option of giving some money to charity at death.
[00:14:48.19] There's also a tax benefit for doing so, which can be nice. Maybe it's the type of a charitable entity that the kids can participate in after the parent's death. So I think charity does come in. The other place that I see a little bit of interest is leaving money to pets.
[00:15:04.76] JORDAN SPRECHMAN: Pets.
[00:15:05.44] GIGI ORTA: You have a very sweet dog.
[00:15:06.98] JORDAN SPRECHMAN: Yes, I do. He's actually well taken care of, mostly by my wife. But yes.
[00:15:13.44] GIGI ORTA: But will he be after your death?
[00:15:16.16] JORDAN SPRECHMAN: That is a very good question. We have not provided for that. I got to go write this down.
[00:15:21.52] GIGI ORTA: I am in California, so we're a little out there on the planning. But it is something that I have had a lot of questions about, and I've had a lot of experience planning for caring for the pets.
[00:15:35.12] JORDAN SPRECHMAN: Anybody who has a pet knows a pet is a member of the family, and they are to be taken care of. Absolutely.
[00:15:41.20] GIGI ORTA: Your estate plan should continue your pattern of giving, your pattern of support, your value system after your death. To me, that is a successful estate plan. It is the type of plan that continues forward after my death, what I wanted to do while I was alive. That might be supporting charity. It might be supporting my kids. It might be taking care of my animals.
[00:16:06.51] But whatever it is that you want to do with your estate and whatever that might be-- it might be very, very large. Maybe it's not as large. But whatever it is, it should go where you want it to go in the way you want it to go.
[00:16:18.95] JORDAN SPRECHMAN: So let me ask you this. I think that's a very well taken point, but people change their minds over time. So my question for you is, having done an estate plan, having everything in place, all of those documents, the wills, the trusts, the powers of attorney, health care proxy, whatever, trust for pets, whatever, how often do you think people should review their documents, all this setup.
[00:16:52.31] GIGI ORTA: I think the estate plan should be reviewed periodically. And I will say that generically for a reason, because if you have young children, I think you need to look at the plan every two to three years. I think the needs of the kids will change dramatically. I think your guardianship nominations-- as an example, if my kids are very, very young, they could be moved anywhere. They could go to family members in any state.
[00:17:14.56] But as they get older, as they grow up, they become more involved in their communities, their sporting activities, their friends. It might be much more traumatic to move them to Ohio with Uncle Joe than to stay in their community with their friends and their schools. So I think for those with young children, you need to look at it every two to three years at a minimum.
[00:17:35.84] I think as you get older, kids are grown. Your wishes are pretty well established. And ideally, when you sign those documents, you have thought through the what ifs. What if that person is not there? What if that charity is not in existence? What if nobody survives? Those people can look, I think, minimum, probably three to five years.
[00:18:01.58] JORDAN SPRECHMAN: One of the things about having done a plan once is now you're used to the vernacular. You understand, big picture, the consequences of tax and non-tax are of doing X, Y, or Z. And so you're more familiar with it and you're actually more comfortable with the topic.
[00:18:17.81] I always find that the hardest thing for people to do is to start the process. And so we'll talk about that. How do you start? If you're persuaded that you really need to get your estate plan done, what's the first thing that you should do?
[00:18:37.89] GIGI ORTA: The first thing you need to do if you want to start your estate plan, is contact an attorney. And that sounds easy, but it's where people get stuck. How do I find an estate planning lawyer? How I find a good estate planning lawyer? How much is it going to cost? What's it going to involve?
[00:18:53.57] And I think people think it's going to be much more time consuming and difficult than it really ends up being. But I would recommend, if you want to start the process of getting your estate plan in order, contact an attorney and get on the calendar.
[00:19:08.28] JORDAN SPRECHMAN: And so you get in and you go sit in the meeting, and you meet with the attorney. And what should you be prepared to discuss when you go in and sit with the attorney?
[00:19:14.56] GIGI ORTA: You need to be prepared to discuss who you want to receive your assets, in what manner, and who you want to name as the responsible parties. And you're generally going to get a questionnaire. If you set an appointment with an estate planning lawyer, they're generally going to send you a questionnaire in advance. That alone stops people in their tracks. It's an 8-page, 10-page document with all these questions, and it feels very overwhelming.
[00:19:36.80] My recommendation is sit down, answer as much as you can, because page 1 is your name, address, and birthday, the names of your children. You crushed page one. It gets more difficult as you go through it, but you don't have to have it completed by the time you get into that first appointment. Your attorney will walk you through the questions.
[00:19:54.40] We also can help. That is part of what we do. We help you think about what are the questions I'm going to have to answer, and how should I contemplate the best way to answer them?
[00:20:05.59] JORDAN SPRECHMAN: And I'll just close on this final point. If you are introduced to an estate planning attorney or an attorney and you just don't think that there's a good fit there, what do you do?
[00:20:19.39] GIGI ORTA: I would immediately look for another attorney. I generally send at least three recommendations for estate planning attorneys, and I will tell my clients, here's what you're looking for. You're looking for personality. This is someone you're going to have to call when your spouse dies. This is going to be someone who's going to ask you very sensitive information, so you have to feel really comfortable. So you're looking for personality. You're looking for communication and responsiveness, because every lawyer speaks a little bit differently about the estate planning topics. And so you want to be able to understand how somebody speaks and really get what they're saying. And then the last thing is cost, because cost can vary tremendously for an estate plan.
[00:21:00.43] JORDAN SPRECHMAN: And so I think among the many lessons from today is everybody's got an estate plan. How well done it is, is a reflection of not only how thorough it is, but also how recently it was done. And if you're stuck trying to figure out, how do I get started, the best way to go about that is to perhaps consult with somebody reliable who you know-- and that could be a JP Morgan representative. We get these kinds of questions regularly-- and to ask JP Morgan representative to introduce you to, as you said, a choice of at least three estate planning attorneys who can help you along on this path.
[00:21:46.72] And again, it has to be somebody, in my opinion, that you have a good fit with. You can assume a level of competence. Maybe you shouldn't always, but you could certainly assume a level of competence. But if it's not a person who, when you call them up, you feel like I don't want to call this person, or if you get an inbound call, you're like, oh, why is this person calling me, that's the wrong person.
[00:22:11.53] It has to be somebody who you're happy to call and happy to get an inbound call from. When that happens, then you're in the right place, and that person will help you along on the process, metaphorically holding your hand through this very difficult and complicated process.
[00:22:28.37] GIGI ORTA: And I mentioned cost, but I will advise this. I will tell people this. Don't pick just based on cost. It's the same reason you don't pick the cheapest dentist.
[00:22:38.05] JORDAN SPRECHMAN: Right. You get what you pay for.
[00:22:40.15] GIGI ORTA: You do get what you pay for.
[00:22:41.35] JORDAN SPRECHMAN: And I'll close with the following thought, apropos that, which is an expression that has been handed down to me from one of our former colleagues, which is if you think good advice is expensive, wait until you get bad advice.
[00:22:55.61] Gigi, thanks again for talking about what people can do to get their estate plans in order. One of the things that we do in the Private Bank is we help our clients get their estate plans done. And anything that you think that you may need to get that process done, we in the JP Morgan Private Bank are happy to help.
[00:23:17.40] UNIDENTIFIED CO. REPRESENTATIVE: Thank you for joining us. Prior to making financial or investment decisions, you should speak with a qualified professional in your JP Morgan team. This concludes today's webcast. You may now disconnect.
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UNIDENTIFIED CO. REPRESENTATIVE: This session is closed to the press. Welcome to the JP Morgan webcast. This is intended for informational purposes only. Opinions expressed herein are those of the speakers and may differ from those of other JP Morgan employees and affiliates. Historical information and outlooks are not guarantees of future results. Any views and strategies described may not be appropriate for all participants and should not be intended as personal, investment, financial, or other advice. As a reminder, investment products are not FDIC insured, do not have bank guarantee, and they may lose value. The webcast may now begin.
[UPBEAT MUSIC]
(DESCRIPTION)
A shimmering strip of gold-plated handwriting swirls elegantly across a dark surface. It spells JP Morgan. Text: Ideas and Insights. Jordan Sprechman has short gray hair and wears a navy pinstripe suit over a checkered shirt. He sits at a desk with a tablet on a stand and a glass of water, in front of large windows overlooking a city skyline. A caption reads Jordan Sprechman, Practice Lead, U.S. Wealth Advisory.
(SPEECH)
JORDAN SPRECHMAN: Hi, everybody. My name is Jordan Sprechman. I am the practice lead of the US Wealth Advisory practice in the JP Morgan Private Bank. I am joined again by my friend and colleague Gigi Orta. Gigi is a wealth advisor in the San Francisco Bay Area, and we are back to talk about estate plans. The last time, we spoke about estate planning. This time, we're going to talk about the mechanics of implementing your estate planning and putting all of the plumbing in place to make sure that your estate plan works for you.
Is it fair to say, Gigi, that one of the biggest hangups that a lot of clients that we run into have is that they just don't how to start on getting their estate plan done?
GIGI ORTA: Yes, absolutely.
JORDAN SPRECHMAN: And just for argument's sake, for anybody who's read the article that was just published, we define it as estate plan, basically, as a coordinated set of legal, tax, and financial arrangements designed to ensure that your assets and the control rights that you have get transferred upon your death to the people you want them to get them transferred to, right?
GIGI ORTA: Absolutely.
JORDAN SPRECHMAN: So why is it so important for people to have an estate plan?
(DESCRIPTION)
Gigi Orta has long dark hair and wears a bright pink blazer over a black top with a pendant necklace. She sits at the desk with tablets on stands, in front of large windows overlooking a city skyline with a park. A caption reads Gigi Orta, Wealth Advisor. She is across the desk from Jordan.
(SPEECH)
GIGI ORTA: Well, the first thing I will tell you is that most people will say, I haven't done my estate planning yet. I don't have a plan in place. And to that I say, yes do.
JORDAN SPRECHMAN: And why do you tell them that.
GIGI ORTA: Well, there's a couple of reasons. One is that if you have put a beneficiary designation on a retirement account, that is an estate plan. That is you telling the institution that holds that account exactly where you want the money to go on your death. That is an estate plan.
The other thing is that every state has a default plan for its citizens. I'm in California. And if I haven't done my own estate planning, if I don't have a plan in place, the state has one for me.
JORDAN SPRECHMAN: And so really in estate plan consists of, it sounds like, a bunch of documents, beneficiary designations, wills, trusts-- in California, revocable trusts are quite common-- and other documents as well. And what are some of those other documents?
GIGI ORTA: The other documents would be things like powers of attorney, because there is a chance that someone is not totally dead, but mostly dead. And in that case, we need a set of documents that allows somebody else to make your financial decisions, your medical decisions, basically do everything that you would do if you had capacity in the event you don't.
JORDAN SPRECHMAN: So if I put together a checklist-- and I'm going to go back for a second. So the elements of an estate plan, you've got beneficiary designations, a will or a trust, certainly a revocable trust and maybe other trusts as well, powers of attorney for financial decisions, powers of attorney for medical decisions.
And by the way, the terms that I just used aren't necessarily the terms that are used in every state, but every state has provisions for them. In some states, they may be called a health proxy, for instance, or something like that. Financial decision for medical, financial decision for financial. Anything else?
GIGI ORTA: Yes, the guardianship nomination for couples with children, absolutely. Or I should say anyone with children.
JORDAN SPRECHMAN: Now does that show up in any of the documents that I just listed, or is it a separate document? Because usually guardianship, I'll see in a will.
GIGI ORTA: It often shows up in the will, because the guardianship nomination in theory would only be necessary upon death. But it sometimes does show up as a standalone document just called guardianship nomination. But it is a really critical component of the estate plan. And I would say it's the number one reason that parents want to do their estate planning, the reason they know they need documents in place. And it is also the number one reason people don't do it.
JORDAN SPRECHMAN: And why is that? I mean, if it's so important, why don't people get it done?
GIGI ORTA: Well, you don't have children. [LAUGHS] Trying to decide who is going to take custody of your minor children is one of the most difficult decisions I think parents have to make. And for most situations, there are two people making this decision together.
JORDAN SPRECHMAN: So fair to say that mother and father might disagree, or one parent might say--
GIGI ORTA: Mom and dad are often going to disagree on who is the best choice for the guardian of their children.
JORDAN SPRECHMAN: And for that reason, as you say, a lot of people tend to punt that decision. They just simply don't make it. And so they never execute on their estate plan. Fair to say they are never complete it?
GIGI ORTA: Fair to say.
JORDAN SPRECHMAN: And so if they don't complete it and if both parents were to pass away before a minor child reaches age 18, then what happens?
GIGI ORTA: Then it goes to the courts. But here's the thing. If you're stuck on choosing your guardians, here's what might help you a little bit. It's always going to go to the courts. You will make a nomination for your guardians, but the court will always decide, because the court has the best interest of the child in mind. And they're not going to take a child kicking and screaming to a relative's house that they don't want to go to.
So it's very important to understand you are making a nomination. That's one of the most important pieces of the puzzle, but it is only a nomination.
JORDAN SPRECHMAN: So again, just to go back, we got beneficiary designations. And beneficiary designations are effective only upon somebody's death.
GIGI ORTA: Correct.
JORDAN SPRECHMAN: Right? And usually when it comes to beneficiary designations, if you have a married couple, almost always-- almost always, not always. Almost always, the spouse is the designated beneficiary. Usually backup beneficiaries are also a good idea. And usually if you have a married couple with children, usually the children are the backup beneficiaries.
Under a will, that again becomes effective only upon death. That's the document that's going to name who the executor is. In many cases, it'll name who the guardian is and again, the difference between California and New York. But we'll also perhaps create trust for the benefit of whoever, typically a spouse and/or children. There's a surviving spouse who may create a trust for spouse. There is no spouse would create for children.
Let's go back to financial powers of attorney. Who's usually named? Again, is usually a spouse if there's a spouse?
GIGI ORTA: Usually.
JORDAN SPRECHMAN: And if there's a backup, what do people do in that case?
GIGI ORTA: This is another place people get stuck, is who is the backup financial person? That falls under many different documents. So the funny thing about actually signing your estate plan is you're going to have 10, 15 different documents all serving a different function. It's really one big coordinated plan, but you do have to have different documents for different responsibilities. And that financial person, the person who's going to be your executor, your trustee, your agent under the power of attorney generally is the spouse if you're married.
Coming up with the alternate can be difficult. Sometimes it's another family member, a sibling, a parent. Sometimes it's adult children. For some, people that I've worked with, they don't have anybody else, and so they will often name a private fiduciary to serve as their alternate. But it is important to have a successor.
We're estate planners by trade, and so we have to go to worst-case scenario. So I always have to consider that the married couple dies at the same time, and they've named each other. But now what?
JORDAN SPRECHMAN: What do you think the reasons are that people don't complete getting their estate plans finalized in our view?
GIGI ORTA: I think it gets stuck at the individual's side. So as an estate planner, if you're hired to do an estate plan, you're going to get that set of drafts out to the clients. In my experience, that's where it gets stuck. It sits there. It's daunting. It's hundreds of pages of legal documents.
JORDAN SPRECHMAN: And what specifically is daunting about it? Is it because there are a bunch of factors that it could be? It could be cost. It could be trying to make irrevocable decisions based on incomplete information. Is that fair to say?
GIGI ORTA: Absolutely.
JORDAN SPRECHMAN: Because you can change your mind. On the other hand, if you change your mind, you can change a document, right?
GIGI ORTA: That's right.
JORDAN SPRECHMAN: Sometimes it's a fear of trying to make-- sometimes it's just hard to make decisions, contemplating one's own demise.
GIGI ORTA: I think what you're getting at is people don't like talking about their own death. We do it every day. I do it at breakfast. I talk about death all day, every day. And I don't like it when people use euphemisms for death. I don't like it when people say "when I move on to the next phase," because I will usually ask the question, which phase is that?
But I do think people don't want to think about it. And so looking at this big set of documents, every one of which contemplates your own death, it's daunting for people. I think people get stuck on the decisions. As I mentioned, guardians are really hard for parents, but also who gets the money?
For families with children, it's pretty straightforward. The kids are going to get the money. Those people get stuck on at what ages, in what manner. But if I'm working with someone who doesn't have children, it's actually really difficult for them to think about, how am I going to distribute at my estate? Who do I want to benefit?
JORDAN SPRECHMAN: So if you were ordering it in the order of complexity or the order of ease, which people do you think are the easiest to plan for, married couples or single individuals?
GIGI ORTA: Married couples with adult children. They're my favorite.
JORDAN SPRECHMAN: That's easy.
GIGI ORTA: Yes.
JORDAN SPRECHMAN: And first marriage for both.
GIGI ORTA: First marriage for both, children of that marriage because it's a funnel. They take care of each other. They take care of the children. Everybody is comfortable. That money is not going to go sideways. Second marriage is a little bit more difficult because if I give my assets to my second husband, is that second husband going to take care of my children, his stepchildren, after his death?
JORDAN SPRECHMAN: And he or she may even be of a similar age as your children. It's certainly possible.
GIGI ORTA: It's more common than you'd think.
JORDAN SPRECHMAN: So married couples, adult children, easiest set of circumstances. What's the next easiest?
GIGI ORTA: I think the next easiest is single people with children. Same reason. Money is flowing down the funnel. We still have to think about who's going to take care of those children. At what ages should those children get their inheritance? And I don't have the answer for everybody, as to how old your kids should be before they receive an inheritance. But I can tell you what I would have done with an inheritance at age 21.
JORDAN SPRECHMAN: And then what's in the order of priorities? We have married with children. Single with children.
GIGI ORTA: I think you're getting a flavor for the easiest, those with children. The more difficult estate plans are those for individuals without children.
JORDAN SPRECHMAN: And especially, I think, at the very bottom the hardest ones are married, no children.
GIGI ORTA: I think "married, no children" is the hardest planning. I do. And the reason is if we don't have children-- you and I are married. We don't have any children. And I leave my estate, my half of the estate to you. That's great. I have family members who I might want to benefit with my half of the money. Maybe I die very young, and I still want to give some money back to my nieces and nephews or my cousins or even some of my friends, but I've left all my money to you.
You don't have any obligation to my family. So then we are layering in some complexity into the estate plan. Maybe I then have to create a trust for you, off of which you can live for your lifetime. But on your death, that goes back to my estate. My question is, what happens if you get remarried? Then what?
JORDAN SPRECHMAN: Or even if I don't get remarried and don't necessarily want to abide by your wishes because people change over time. Their attitudes towards wealth change. Their attitudes towards a lot of things change. Yes, obviously, a remarriage is very important.
One question we've talked a lot about, children, no children, other family members. Where do you find giving to charity falling into people's estate plans generally?
GIGI ORTA: I think we see the charitable gift more often with those without children because it's a natural sort of option if you don't have any children, as to where am I going to leave my estate. Although I think with higher net worth families, those who have a significant amount of wealth don't actually want to give their children all of their money. And so they do like the option of giving some money to charity at death.
There's also a tax benefit for doing so, which can be nice. Maybe it's the type of a charitable entity that the kids can participate in after the parent's death. So I think charity does come in. The other place that I see a little bit of interest is leaving money to pets.
JORDAN SPRECHMAN: Pets.
GIGI ORTA: You have a very sweet dog.
JORDAN SPRECHMAN: Yes, I do. He's actually well taken care of, mostly by my wife. But yes.
GIGI ORTA: But will he be after your death?
JORDAN SPRECHMAN: That is a very good question. We have not provided for that. I got to go write this down.
GIGI ORTA: I am in California, so we're a little out there on the planning. But it is something that I have had a lot of questions about, and I've had a lot of experience planning for caring for the pets.
JORDAN SPRECHMAN: Anybody who has a pet knows a pet is a member of the family, and they are to be taken care of. Absolutely.
GIGI ORTA: Your estate plan should continue your pattern of giving, your pattern of support, your value system after your death. To me, that is a successful estate plan. It is the type of plan that continues forward after my death, what I wanted to do while I was alive. That might be supporting charity. It might be supporting my kids. It might be taking care of my animals.
But whatever it is that you want to do with your estate and whatever that might be-- it might be very, very large. Maybe it's not as large. But whatever it is, it should go where you want it to go in the way you want it to go.
JORDAN SPRECHMAN: So let me ask you this. I think that's a very well taken point, but people change their minds over time. So my question for you is, having done an estate plan, having everything in place, all of those documents, the wills, the trusts, the powers of attorney, health care proxy, whatever, trust for pets, whatever, how often do you think people should review their documents, all this setup.
GIGI ORTA: I think the estate plan should be reviewed periodically. And I will say that generically for a reason, because if you have young children, I think you need to look at the plan every two to three years. I think the needs of the kids will change dramatically. I think your guardianship nominations-- as an example, if my kids are very, very young, they could be moved anywhere. They could go to family members in any state.
But as they get older, as they grow up, they become more involved in their communities, their sporting activities, their friends. It might be much more traumatic to move them to Ohio with Uncle Joe than to stay in their community with their friends and their schools. So I think for those with young children, you need to look at it every two to three years at a minimum.
I think as you get older, kids are grown. Your wishes are pretty well established. And ideally, when you sign those documents, you have thought through the what ifs. What if that person is not there? What if that charity is not in existence? What if nobody survives? Those people can look, I think, minimum, probably three to five years.
JORDAN SPRECHMAN: One of the things about having done a plan once is now you're used to the vernacular. You understand, big picture, the consequences of tax and non-tax are of doing X, Y, or Z. And so you're more familiar with it and you're actually more comfortable with the topic.
I always find that the hardest thing for people to do is to start the process. And so we'll talk about that. How do you start? If you're persuaded that you really need to get your estate plan done, what's the first thing that you should do?
GIGI ORTA: The first thing you need to do if you want to start your estate plan, is contact an attorney. And that sounds easy, but it's where people get stuck. How do I find an estate planning lawyer? How I find a good estate planning lawyer? How much is it going to cost? What's it going to involve?
And I think people think it's going to be much more time consuming and difficult than it really ends up being. But I would recommend, if you want to start the process of getting your estate plan in order, contact an attorney and get on the calendar.
JORDAN SPRECHMAN: And so you get in and you go sit in the meeting, and you meet with the attorney. And what should you be prepared to discuss when you go in and sit with the attorney?
GIGI ORTA: You need to be prepared to discuss who you want to receive your assets, in what manner, and who you want to name as the responsible parties. And you're generally going to get a questionnaire. If you set an appointment with an estate planning lawyer, they're generally going to send you a questionnaire in advance. That alone stops people in their tracks. It's an 8-page, 10-page document with all these questions, and it feels very overwhelming.
My recommendation is sit down, answer as much as you can, because page 1 is your name, address, and birthday, the names of your children. You crushed page one. It gets more difficult as you go through it, but you don't have to have it completed by the time you get into that first appointment. Your attorney will walk you through the questions.
We also can help. That is part of what we do. We help you think about what are the questions I'm going to have to answer, and how should I contemplate the best way to answer them?
JORDAN SPRECHMAN: And I'll just close on this final point. If you are introduced to an estate planning attorney or an attorney and you just don't think that there's a good fit there, what do you do?
GIGI ORTA: I would immediately look for another attorney. I generally send at least three recommendations for estate planning attorneys, and I will tell my clients, here's what you're looking for. You're looking for personality. This is someone you're going to have to call when your spouse dies. This is going to be someone who's going to ask you very sensitive information, so you have to feel really comfortable. So you're looking for personality. You're looking for communication and responsiveness, because every lawyer speaks a little bit differently about the estate planning topics. And so you want to be able to understand how somebody speaks and really get what they're saying. And then the last thing is cost, because cost can vary tremendously for an estate plan.
JORDAN SPRECHMAN: And so I think among the many lessons from today is everybody's got an estate plan. How well done it is, is a reflection of not only how thorough it is, but also how recently it was done. And if you're stuck trying to figure out, how do I get started, the best way to go about that is to perhaps consult with somebody reliable who you know-- and that could be a JP Morgan representative. We get these kinds of questions regularly-- and to ask JP Morgan representative to introduce you to, as you said, a choice of at least three estate planning attorneys who can help you along on this path.
And again, it has to be somebody, in my opinion, that you have a good fit with. You can assume a level of competence. Maybe you shouldn't always, but you could certainly assume a level of competence. But if it's not a person who, when you call them up, you feel like I don't want to call this person, or if you get an inbound call, you're like, oh, why is this person calling me, that's the wrong person.
It has to be somebody who you're happy to call and happy to get an inbound call from. When that happens, then you're in the right place, and that person will help you along on the process, metaphorically holding your hand through this very difficult and complicated process.
GIGI ORTA: And I mentioned cost, but I will advise this. I will tell people this. Don't pick just based on cost. It's the same reason you don't pick the cheapest dentist.
JORDAN SPRECHMAN: Right. You get what you pay for.
GIGI ORTA: You do get what you pay for.
JORDAN SPRECHMAN: And I'll close with the following thought, apropos that, which is an expression that has been handed down to me from one of our former colleagues, which is if you think good advice is expensive, wait until you get bad advice.
Gigi, thanks again for talking about what people can do to get their estate plans in order. One of the things that we do in the Private Bank is we help our clients get their estate plans done. And anything that you think that you may need to get that process done, we in the JP Morgan Private Bank are happy to help.
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