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[00:00:00.44] This session is closed to the press. Welcome to the JPMorgan webcast. This is intended for informational purposes only. Opinions expressed herein are those of the speakers and may differ from those of other JPMorgan employees and affiliates. Historical information and outlooks are not guarantees of future results. Any views and strategies described may not be appropriate for all participants and should not be intended as personal investment, financial, or other advice. As a reminder, investment products are not FDIC insured, do not have bank guarantee, and they may lose value. The webcast may now begin.
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[00:00:53.68] Thank you so much for joining us today. My name is BJ Goergen. I'm the head of Morgan Private Advisory here at JP Morgan's Private Bank. You have heard a lot about AI in the news, and today, we're going to spend some time talking about how AI is impacting cybersecurity. We're going to talk about frontier AI models and how they are different than prior models. We're going to talk about the impact of what we're doing here at JP Morgan at an enterprise level, but also what might be relevant for small business owners, and then we're going to talk about some of the things that you need to be thinking about personally.
[00:01:28.25] Today, I'm joined by two experts at our firm-- one, Ileana van der Linde, who is the head of cyber advisory for the Private Bank, and Joe Padoan, who is the chief technology officer for asset and wealth management technology. They are advising clients and advising our business owners here every day in a great resource for everyone. So Joe and Ileana, I want to start with understanding how AI is impacting the fields of cybersecurity and business resiliency.
[00:01:58.25] Great question. I think certainly in the field of cybersecurity, machine learning has been already used for a long time. This is an area where we've done a lot of fraud detection. We're able to process large amounts of data and look for patterns of concern.
[00:02:17.58] In the last few years, as generative AI has come in and the AI tools have become more powerful, it has also helped us upgrade and also process large amounts of data and look for new patterns of egress that could be coming in across an institution. And I'm sure Joe will talk a little bit about this. But it also means that cyber criminals are also using artificial intelligence to also facilitate their attacks. So it's not just one side. Offense and defense are using the same tools.
[00:02:51.54] What was interesting is that recently in the Verizon DBIR, which is an industry report about how vulnerabilities occur, this is the first time in 19 years that vulnerabilities were the point of the largest amount of breaches versus previously credentials.
[00:03:12.77] Oh, interesting. So before, people would try to get a credential to get in.
[00:03:16.63] To get in.
[00:03:17.17] Now it's a vulnerability on the back end.
[00:03:18.87] Yes. And that means that AI is boosting their attacks. So I'm sure going forward, that is only going to increase. But that is a very, very important shift in the industry.
[00:03:35.15] What about you from a business resiliency perspective?
[00:03:37.61] Yeah, so from a business resiliency perspective, AI has had a profound impact on from technology, the way we defend our systems, the way we build our systems, many of it for good. So we're able to build software much faster, much more secure, much more resilient using the AI tools.
[00:03:59.91] Of course, because threats are increasing due to AI-- gives access and to vulnerabilities and the ability to find new and exploit new vulnerabilities-- that's made our focus on cyber defense a higher priority. It's always been a priority, but it's made it a higher priority.
[00:04:19.29] It also has been information for our business to understand it's not just a technology challenge, cybersecurity. They really need to be involved and understand what the impact could be to their business and how should a business be able to react, recover, and manage through any kind of cybersecurity incidents.
[00:04:41.53] In a minute, I want to talk to you about what are some of the things that we're doing at JP Morgan. But will you both talk about frontier AI models and how they are different than other models that have existed before?
[00:04:54.21] Yeah, well, I think first, we often talk about the foundational models. And those would be OpenAI's ChatGPT, Anthropic's Claude, Perplexity, Gemini Copilot. Those are the ones that are foundational and really across many different industries. Frontier AI are also foundational, but they are very advanced and usually very specific. They have expert-- execute on multitask, deep reasoning, and things like that.
[00:05:24.72] One of the most recent ones that came out that got a lot of press attention was Claude Mythos. And Mythos specifically was able to identify vulnerabilities in very short order. Typically, a cybercriminal might find an exploit or a vulnerability in a system and then need several weeks or months before they decided how to exploit that and then create ransomware, for example. What is happening now is you have an autonomous system that is all of a sudden making its way in and can find multiple vulnerabilities at a time, and the time to exploit is immensely condensed.
[00:06:02.71] So it's leaving-- to what Joe was recently talking about, is the speed to which you can exploit a system is causing everybody to say, we now really have to harden a lot of our systems and get back to some core fundamentals on cybersecurity going forward. But Joe--
[00:06:20.49] Yeah, talk about what we're doing here at the firm and some of the work your team has been doing, how that might be applicable to some of our clients and their businesses.
[00:06:28.77] Yeah, so I think Mythos, as one of those frontier models from Anthropic, has really been a wake-up call for many organizations. The ability of those frontier models to find vulnerabilities and create exploits, again, from a speed perspective and from a volume perspective, as well as finding new and novel vulnerabilities-- so how does a large organization like JPMorgan-- a lot of it is back to basics. A lot of what we've been doing has helped us prepare for this, having a very rigorous and strong cybersecurity program.
[00:07:08.84] We have one of the industry's leading cybersecurity teams under our CISO, Pat Opet. And we follow all the industry best practices such as NIST and a lot of those basic and fundamentals around vulnerability like aggressive vulnerability management, keeping up to date with your hygiene, getting rid of old or legacy technical debt. Those are the things that, even in a post-Mythos world, are very important. And really, every organization, large and small, should be following those best practices.
[00:07:42.52] JPMorgan recently published a set of 10 actions that every company should take right now in response to emerging AI cyber threats, and that's something you can find on our internet public-facing website.
[00:07:58.58] Will you walk through what some of those best practices are? I know that you wear an enterprise hat, and I know, Ileana, you spend time with clients around the country. And we have unbelievable resources and capabilities at an enterprise level. But what does the small business owner think about doing, or what does a family office think about doing to protect themselves?
[00:08:17.33] So I think a lot of the practices that are applicable to large enterprises are also applicable to smaller. The threats are similar, and you should be taking some of the similar acts. So, for example, a good one is upgrading your software to the latest version.
[00:08:35.61] It seems 101.
[00:08:36.87] Yeah, seems 101, but a lot of people don't do it. So we call that patching. And patching isn't something you shouldn't be doing annually or monthly. It's something that has to be done frequently. And it takes time. It takes resources. It takes expertise in understanding what patches are important, which are not.
[00:08:53.65] So there is a habit, a reflex that needs to be built into large and small organizations around patching to fix these vulnerabilities. Vulnerabilities are just defects or bugs in software that create security loopholes, and the patches help remediate and resolve those. So it's very important to understand what things you need to upgrade and patch.
[00:09:19.52] You have desktop servers. You have servers. You have laptops. You have desktops. You have software. So understanding your inventory of things that can be vulnerable-- if you have video cameras in your office for security reasons, those can be hacked and vulnerable. So understand your inventory of technology and make sure all that is up to date with the freshest versions of software and hardware and firmware. I think that's a very important takeaway.
[00:09:50.54] Also, understanding your third-party risk-- who are the vendors that you work with? Who does your payroll? A lot of companies outsource HR. They outsource-- you might have a legal firm that you have services with. How are they managing your data? How are they managing your systems?
[00:10:08.27] There are risks there in the third party, and I think every business should assess that and understand and ask tough questions of your service providers and third parties around how they're managing their security, because the breach could happen at one of those partners that work with you and impact your business or your organization.
[00:10:28.25] Well, and I can see a new framework where it becomes even more important to select a vendor based on the security measures that they have in place across your entire business.
[00:10:36.45] I was going to also add to what Joe just said. For every client we meet-- in particular, family offices and smaller firms-- we suggest doing a cyber assessment. This is not an assessment that just says my network is fine on Mondays and Tuesdays at 4:30 PM. That is a one-time network test.
[00:10:57.17] A full cyber and risk assessment does an analysis of, am I physically vulnerable? Are there people who can get into the building and be able to access my systems and networks? It is also a physical assessment, but it is also a third-party risk assessment. It is really understanding where am I vulnerable and not just going, I think I'm fine.
[00:11:19.47] This, at this rate, should be done every 12 to 18 months. This is no longer something you do every couple of years. But with the acceleration of a lot of these threats, it has to be done on a regular basis. There are firms that specialize in small business and family offices that do that kind of work, but they're also really going to look at-- and I would say once you have that list and prioritization from them, then you know exactly where you need to focus first. It's not a, I think I need to do this.
[00:11:48.23] The second part of what Joe said is it's so critical to no longer just rely on the IT guy you've had in the back room for forever. What was maybe fine five years ago is no longer sufficient for at this rate of accelerated software updates and AI vulnerabilities. You have to get professional services in place.
[00:12:12.14] That means also getting a managed service provider. That's the group that is going to make sure that you can patch 24/7, 365. Just relying on a single person who is a single point of failure, if you will-- if there's--
[00:12:27.90] A lot of vulnerability to your business doing that.
[00:12:30.66] Yeah, if you just rely on one person that works Monday to Friday, they need a weekend as well. If a vulnerability or a big patch, something comes in, a managed service provider has a test bed an entire area where they can test the software, make sure it's ready to go, and can push that out and support you. This is, again, where small businesses just have to make sure that they are fully prepared for the new environment that we're all living in. We can't just say, oh, I'm small. Nobody's going to notice.
[00:13:02.57] So we've talked a lot about threats, and we've talked a lot about risks. But there are some great opportunities for leveraging AI to automate functions in your business and to enhance so many elements. We're doing it up and down and across our firm in a really thoughtful and methodical way. Can you talk about what versions of these frontier models people are using and what some of the surprising things are that you have found?
[00:13:28.71] So I think the frontier models are probably going to be in the hands of large organizations, or they're also going to be in the hands of cyber criminals or of nation-states that are going to be able to put a very powerful tool in place. On the receiving end of that. I think we've all got to make sure that we are-- as a business that you are in good hands and that you are professionally looking at-- but one thing that we always say is you're probably not going to be a shop or a business with only one version of an AI tool. You might be using ChatGPT. You might be using a Claude and various other unique and specific models. But what data they access is really critical.
[00:14:14.58] So we always suggest to firms, make sure you have an AI policy. I recently just read that about 43% of firms have shadow AI, meaning you're seeing employees who are downloading versions of AI that are not yet permissioned by the company onto their own devices and using this. So it's really critical for firms to get a data policy in place or an AI policy to say, these are the ones that we've tested, vetted. These are the ones we've okayed, and these are the ones we're not, and really prevent people from being able to download software.
[00:14:57.78] What about licensing?
[00:14:59.40] Licensing I'm a huge proponent of. Please license buy something. Do not use the free versions. Why?
[00:15:06.29] I can tell a couple horror stories. One, because the data can also be going out-- I love to call it to the mothership. The data is going back out. I really believe we're sitting on the edge of a huge privacy cliff. There are people who are putting in company data, and also personal data, into these tools who have not turned off model learning, who have not restricted the data going out. And what you have to understand is the owners of these AI firms, they're reading everything. They're collecting everything on the other end and can be building a much bigger source of information. So it's really important that you license it, turn off model learning, and use it responsibly.
[00:15:48.75] I think that's another reason why a data policy is very important. Decide what data is approved for use when you're using these tools and what should not be ever used. What is confidential data? What is private data? Assume anything you use with these models could be exfiltrated into the actual larger system for learning. So you have to have very strict rules around the usage.
[00:16:16.74] The other thing we're seeing in some of the newer models and tools is the ability to build agentic tools, like agents. That's when you're emulating what a human would do, and you're building workflows and orchestration. And there's certain risks around that. Again, it's incredibly powerful, and it's a great tool to build efficiency into every organization. But also, should be knowledgeable and awareness of when these agents are created, what kind of access do they have? What kind of skills and capabilities will they have?
[00:16:50.74] One other thing I think is very important for people to-- organizations large and small to think about is, who has access to these tools? You may not want people who have high sensitive critical administrative access-- like, for example, your CFO, who has access to all your bank accounts, understands all the passwords-- do you want them to also be running certain types of AI or even building agents to do things personally or locally on their laptops or desktops? There could be a risk in that. So understanding of segregating certain roles and access from these tools and these AI agents is very important for every organization to think about.
[00:17:39.18] And this is where I think it's so important, again, to say, even in the cyber world where you should be seeking out professional services, you also, in this AI and data governance area, should be seeking out teams. There are companies that will help isolate, segregate, and help you really do proper data governance on what you want.
[00:18:00.82] One of the examples I often give when explaining agentic AI-- we talk about it. Most people don't. If you and I have a conversation, and you say, Ileana, I'm definitely going to send you that file after lunch, and I'm waiting all day going, when is she going to send this, I can ask my agent, theoretically, to go to your agent and say, go get that email she promised me out of your email. And your agent does. Because if the permissions have not been set up-- and you could have said, I want to look at that file before I send it to her, because I know it also has--
[00:18:31.53] Because of the governance.
[00:18:32.21] --sensitive data. But if data just goes, sure, my agent can just deliver things, and if we don't think that properly through, there can be a lot of data that is lost just because of lack of insight or lack of oversight.
[00:18:49.91] So I want to pivot now a little bit to personal use of AI. I speak for myself and my family that we are using it in almost every area of our personal lives. I'm sure most people are. Will you just talk a little bit about how people are using it in their personal lives and how we should think about using it in our personal lives?
[00:19:10.62] So I would say-- when I say a lot of us use these tools recreationally, rule number one, I would never-- I want you to sign up for a license.
[00:19:21.70] Even personally?
[00:19:22.68] Even personally, I would sign up with a license because it is giving you the ability to restrict certain things and turn off model learning. Use a different email when you sign up for this than you do for your banking, for medical use, or anything else important. You do not want the AI tool learning, oh, this is where BJ or Joe have the vast majority of their life. Because as fast as this technology is moving, the more you can keep things segregated, the better.
[00:19:52.62] Anonymize your profile. You don't need to have your real name in the profile. You can make things up a little bit. But use a VPN, a virtual private network, which can be an app. There are several good ones out there. But what that does is it anonymizes your device from knowing, oh, this is from coming from BJ Goergen's home computer. It has no idea who the query is coming from. So it anonymizes you every time. Turn off the model learning. And I would also say take this time to also reduce your digital footprint in many, many places.
[00:20:26.17] This is like the digital hygiene you two have been talking about. It's like AI hasn't changed it. It's made it more important, and more important immediately.
[00:20:35.03] It's heightened it, yes, absolutely.
[00:20:36.77] These are all best practices. I think, just to go a little bit deeper, turning off model learning, it sounds a little jargony, but what it's basically saying is you don't want the world to learn from the questions you're asking your ChatGPT or your tool and putting that as part of the larger global model. So I think people don't realize that these tools are constantly learning and bringing new information in constantly. You do not have to be part of that cycle. Every one of them, whatever product it is, has a way of disabling that so your information stays personal and private to you.
[00:21:16.50] Yeah, so in the data and security section of your model, there is a-- "I do not want to share" is basically the essence of it. I personally really like-- I don't know if you know DuckDuckGo. So DuckDuckGo is a privacy browser.
[00:21:31.26] I know it because of prepping for this conversation.
[00:21:33.46] So it's a great install to do. But DuckDuckGo also has duck.ai, and it itself goes to eight different models. And it also keeps the chats personally on your device and goes out anonymously for you and ask the question. So I always think you want to talk to a lot of these tools not like know me better, but just asking for a friend. The less it knows about you personally and takes that information home, one, the privacy rules on a lot of these tools do not exist to a great degree.
[00:22:11.55] So you're having to put the privacy in for yourself.
[00:22:13.75] You have to put the privacy-- that's a great way to put it, BJ. It is not a fiduciary. It is not an attorney. You are not covered by HIPAA laws or anything else. And therefore, when-- a lot of people are now using these tools as therapists and sharing an intense amount of personal information. I recently dealt with somebody who was in the middle of a custody battle, and she entered in, did I overdose my six-year-old?
[00:22:42.65] Well, in a custody battle, if that chat goes into the court of law, that is all knowable about that parent, which is very unfortunate. So these are the types of things that can be-- I think we have not yet really-- are just beginning to learn what damage they can also do.
[00:23:01.99] Two other things that you all had talked about before, previously, is we talk about multi-factor authentication and passwords. I know that seems really pedestrian, but you both talked about it in prepping for this conversation.
[00:23:14.56] Yeah. I would say, particularly for both the business and for personal, multi-factor authentication on anywhere offered. On a business, your insurance rates will go down the more you multi-factor. But more importantly, in the face of AI, where vulnerabilities are very quickly found, having a second factor of authentication to release money or to access systems or devices, it is critical as part of your security. I always say it's like the deadbolt on your door, not just the little jiggly lock. It's the deadbolt that helps keep things at bay. Personally, you should use it on anything and everything. Because again, these tools are moving so quickly.
[00:23:59.44] And if there's a piece of software or a vendor or tool you work with and they don't offer MFA, I would be concerned about that in terms of what is the quality of that tool and other types of vulnerabilities or cyber risks. So MFA should be the standard, and everyone should be leveraging that in every connection.
[00:24:17.62] So is there anything else that the two of you do personally that we need to know before we close out of this conversation? I feel like the two of you have a heightened level of awareness.
[00:24:27.26] Yeah, it's a little bit different. It's not necessarily from security. But in terms of leveraging AI and these different tools, I don't go to-- I don't use one. I use multiple. And I almost treat it as a panel of experts. If I'm trying to learn something or get information, I will present the same prompt or question to several different of these AIs and then try to understand, OK, let's make sense of answers.
[00:24:57.14] I just think relying on a single large language model or a single model, whatever version of that model is, I think is somewhat risky no matter what you're using these tools for. And I think you should be leveraging a variety of them. That's one of the personal things.
[00:25:12.73] Yeah, and I think going to that, always verifying the source of any information. I think what has happened now-- previously when we had search engines, when we entered in a query, you'd get 20 responses back, and you'd be like, oh, I should have asked the question, or I can kind of find the link. We're now seeing things-- AI assistance coming forward and answering questions. Did I ask the question correctly? Is it misinterpreting?
[00:25:40.29] Even though there are some AI models that are terribly popular right now, those things will rapidly change. And I think taking two steps backward and keeping your eye on the entire landscape is really, really important.
[00:25:54.65] I feel like I could listen to this all afternoon, and it's such a flavor of what you deal with every day. Thank you so much for sharing some of these best practices and things to think about. We're going to link all of the materials that Joe and Ileana mentioned today with this webcast so that you have access to them. And Joe, Ileana, and our team at JPMorgan are here to help you and partner with you along this journey. Thank you.
[00:26:17.30] Thank you for joining us. Prior to making financial or investment decisions, you should speak with a qualified professional in your JPMorgan team. This concludes today's webcast. You may now disconnect.
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This session is closed to the press. Welcome to the JPMorgan webcast. This is intended for informational purposes only. Opinions expressed herein are those of the speakers and may differ from those of other JPMorgan employees and affiliates. Historical information and outlooks are not guarantees of future results. Any views and strategies described may not be appropriate for all participants and should not be intended as personal investment, financial, or other advice. As a reminder, investment products are not FDIC insured, do not have bank guarantee, and they may lose value. The webcast may now begin.
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A shimmering strip of gold-plated handwriting swirls elegantly across a dark surface. It spells JP Morgan. Text: Ideas and Insights. A woman with shoulder-length blond hair wears a green blazer over a black scoop-neck top, gold drop earrings, and a small clip-on microphone attached to her lapel. She holds papers in front of her, and a clear glass sits at the lower right edge. Behind her is a dark gray ribbed acoustic panel wall. A label reads BJ Goergen, Global Head of J.P. Morgan Private Advisory.
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Thank you so much for joining us today. My name is BJ Goergen. I'm the head of Morgan Private Advisory here at JP Morgan's Private Bank. You have heard a lot about AI in the news, and today, we're going to spend some time talking about how AI is impacting cybersecurity. We're going to talk about frontier AI models and how they are different than prior models. We're going to talk about the impact of what we're doing here at JP Morgan at an enterprise level, but also what might be relevant for small business owners, and then we're going to talk about some of the things that you need to be thinking about personally.
Today, I'm joined by two experts at our firm-- one, Ileana van der Linde, who is the head of cyber advisory for the Private Bank, and Joe Padoan, who is the chief technology officer for asset and wealth management technology. They are advising clients and advising our business owners here every day in a great resource for everyone. So Joe and Ileana, I want to start with understanding how AI is impacting the fields of cybersecurity and business resiliency.
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The three people sit at a long curved white desk. To the left of BJ sits a woman with long brown hair, wearing a navy collared shirt with a black floral-patterned scarf, drop earrings, a thin necklace, and a small clip-on microphone. A tablet screen and a glass of water sit on the table in front of her. A label reads Ileana van der Linde, Head of Cyber Advisory.
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Great question. I think certainly in the field of cybersecurity, machine learning has been already used for a long time. This is an area where we've done a lot of fraud detection. We're able to process large amounts of data and look for patterns of concern.
In the last few years, as generative AI has come in and the AI tools have become more powerful, it has also helped us upgrade and also process large amounts of data and look for new patterns of egress that could be coming in across an institution. And I'm sure Joe will talk a little bit about this. But it also means that cyber criminals are also using artificial intelligence to also facilitate their attacks. So it's not just one side. Offense and defense are using the same tools.
What was interesting is that recently in the Verizon DBIR, which is an industry report about how vulnerabilities occur, this is the first time in 19 years that vulnerabilities were the point of the largest amount of breaches versus previously credentials.
Oh, interesting. So before, people would try to get a credential to get in.
To get in.
Now it's a vulnerability on the back end.
Yes. And that means that AI is boosting their attacks. So I'm sure going forward, that is only going to increase. But that is a very, very important shift in the industry.
What about you from a business resiliency perspective?
Yeah,
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A man with short dark hair and a beard wears a dark navy blazer over a white open-collar shirt with a clip-on microphone. A tablet edge sits on the table in front of him. A label reads Joe Padone titled CTO, Global Head of Production Management and Infrastructure.
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so from a business resiliency perspective, AI has had a profound impact on from technology, the way we defend our systems, the way we build our systems, many of it for good. So we're able to build software much faster, much more secure, much more resilient using the AI tools.
Of course, because threats are increasing due to AI-- gives access and to vulnerabilities and the ability to find new and exploit new vulnerabilities-- that's made our focus on cyber defense a higher priority. It's always been a priority, but it's made it a higher priority.
It also has been information for our business to understand it's not just a technology challenge, cybersecurity. They really need to be involved and understand what the impact could be to their business and how should a business be able to react, recover, and manage through any kind of cybersecurity incidents.
In a minute, I want to talk to you about what are some of the things that we're doing at JP Morgan. But will you both talk about frontier AI models and how they are different than other models that have existed before?
Yeah, well, I think first, we often talk about the foundational models. And those would be OpenAI's ChatGPT, Anthropic's Claude, Perplexity, Gemini Copilot. Those are the ones that are foundational and really across many different industries. Frontier AI are also foundational, but they are very advanced and usually very specific. They have expert-- execute on multitask, deep reasoning, and things like that.
One of the most recent ones that came out that got a lot of press attention was Claude Mythos. And Mythos specifically was able to identify vulnerabilities in very short order. Typically, a cybercriminal might find an exploit or a vulnerability in a system and then need several weeks or months before they decided how to exploit that and then create ransomware, for example. What is happening now is you have an autonomous system that is all of a sudden making its way in and can find multiple vulnerabilities at a time, and the time to exploit is immensely condensed.
So it's leaving-- to what Joe was recently talking about, is the speed to which you can exploit a system is causing everybody to say, we now really have to harden a lot of our systems and get back to some core fundamentals on cybersecurity going forward. But Joe--
Yeah, talk about what we're doing here at the firm and some of the work your team has been doing, how that might be applicable to some of our clients and their businesses.
Yeah, so I think Mythos, as one of those frontier models from Anthropic, has really been a wake-up call for many organizations. The ability of those frontier models to find vulnerabilities and create exploits, again, from a speed perspective and from a volume perspective, as well as finding new and novel vulnerabilities-- so how does a large organization like JPMorgan-- a lot of it is back to basics. A lot of what we've been doing has helped us prepare for this, having a very rigorous and strong cybersecurity program.
We have one of the industry's leading cybersecurity teams under our CISO, Pat Opet. And we follow all the industry best practices such as NIST and a lot of those basic and fundamentals around vulnerability like aggressive vulnerability management, keeping up to date with your hygiene, getting rid of old or legacy technical debt. Those are the things that, even in a post-Mythos world, are very important. And really, every organization, large and small, should be following those best practices.
JPMorgan recently published a set of 10 actions that every company should take right now in response to emerging AI cyber threats, and that's something you can find on our internet public-facing website.
Will you walk through what some of those best practices are? I know that you wear an enterprise hat, and I know, Ileana, you spend time with clients around the country. And we have unbelievable resources and capabilities at an enterprise level. But what does the small business owner think about doing, or what does a family office think about doing to protect themselves?
So I think a lot of the practices that are applicable to large enterprises are also applicable to smaller. The threats are similar, and you should be taking some of the similar acts. So, for example, a good one is upgrading your software to the latest version.
It seems 101.
Yeah, seems 101, but a lot of people don't do it. So we call that patching. And patching isn't something you shouldn't be doing annually or monthly. It's something that has to be done frequently. And it takes time. It takes resources. It takes expertise in understanding what patches are important, which are not.
So there is a habit, a reflex that needs to be built into large and small organizations around patching to fix these vulnerabilities. Vulnerabilities are just defects or bugs in software that create security loopholes, and the patches help remediate and resolve those. So it's very important to understand what things you need to upgrade and patch.
You have desktop servers. You have servers. You have laptops. You have desktops. You have software. So understanding your inventory of things that can be vulnerable-- if you have video cameras in your office for security reasons, those can be hacked and vulnerable. So understand your inventory of technology and make sure all that is up to date with the freshest versions of software and hardware and firmware. I think that's a very important takeaway.
Also, understanding your third-party risk-- who are the vendors that you work with? Who does your payroll? A lot of companies outsource HR. They outsource-- you might have a legal firm that you have services with. How are they managing your data? How are they managing your systems?
There are risks there in the third party, and I think every business should assess that and understand and ask tough questions of your service providers and third parties around how they're managing their security, because the breach could happen at one of those partners that work with you and impact your business or your organization.
Well, and I can see a new framework where it becomes even more important to select a vendor based on the security measures that they have in place across your entire business.
I was going to also add to what Joe just said. For every client we meet-- in particular, family offices and smaller firms-- we suggest doing a cyber assessment. This is not an assessment that just says my network is fine on Mondays and Tuesdays at 4:30 PM. That is a one-time network test.
A full cyber and risk assessment does an analysis of, am I physically vulnerable? Are there people who can get into the building and be able to access my systems and networks? It is also a physical assessment, but it is also a third-party risk assessment. It is really understanding where am I vulnerable and not just going, I think I'm fine.
This, at this rate, should be done every 12 to 18 months. This is no longer something you do every couple of years. But with the acceleration of a lot of these threats, it has to be done on a regular basis. There are firms that specialize in small business and family offices that do that kind of work, but they're also really going to look at-- and I would say once you have that list and prioritization from them, then you know exactly where you need to focus first. It's not a, I think I need to do this.
The second part of what Joe said is it's so critical to no longer just rely on the IT guy you've had in the back room for forever. What was maybe fine five years ago is no longer sufficient for at this rate of accelerated software updates and AI vulnerabilities. You have to get professional services in place.
That means also getting a managed service provider. That's the group that is going to make sure that you can patch 24/7, 365. Just relying on a single person who is a single point of failure, if you will-- if there's--
A lot of vulnerability to your business doing that.
Yeah, if you just rely on one person that works Monday to Friday, they need a weekend as well. If a vulnerability or a big patch, something comes in, a managed service provider has a test bed an entire area where they can test the software, make sure it's ready to go, and can push that out and support you. This is, again, where small businesses just have to make sure that they are fully prepared for the new environment that we're all living in. We can't just say, oh, I'm small. Nobody's going to notice.
So we've talked a lot about threats, and we've talked a lot about risks. But there are some great opportunities for leveraging AI to automate functions in your business and to enhance so many elements. We're doing it up and down and across our firm in a really thoughtful and methodical way. Can you talk about what versions of these frontier models people are using and what some of the surprising things are that you have found?
So I think the frontier models are probably going to be in the hands of large organizations, or they're also going to be in the hands of cyber criminals or of nation-states that are going to be able to put a very powerful tool in place. On the receiving end of that. I think we've all got to make sure that we are-- as a business that you are in good hands and that you are professionally looking at-- but one thing that we always say is you're probably not going to be a shop or a business with only one version of an AI tool. You might be using ChatGPT. You might be using a Claude and various other unique and specific models. But what data they access is really critical.
So we always suggest to firms, make sure you have an AI policy. I recently just read that about 43% of firms have shadow AI, meaning you're seeing employees who are downloading versions of AI that are not yet permissioned by the company onto their own devices and using this. So it's really critical for firms to get a data policy in place or an AI policy to say, these are the ones that we've tested, vetted. These are the ones we've okayed, and these are the ones we're not, and really prevent people from being able to download software.
What about licensing?
Licensing I'm a huge proponent of. Please license buy something. Do not use the free versions. Why?
I can tell a couple horror stories. One, because the data can also be going out-- I love to call it to the mothership. The data is going back out. I really believe we're sitting on the edge of a huge privacy cliff. There are people who are putting in company data, and also personal data, into these tools who have not turned off model learning, who have not restricted the data going out. And what you have to understand is the owners of these AI firms, they're reading everything. They're collecting everything on the other end and can be building a much bigger source of information. So it's really important that you license it, turn off model learning, and use it responsibly.
I think that's another reason why a data policy is very important. Decide what data is approved for use when you're using these tools and what should not be ever used. What is confidential data? What is private data? Assume anything you use with these models could be exfiltrated into the actual larger system for learning. So you have to have very strict rules around the usage.
The other thing we're seeing in some of the newer models and tools is the ability to build agentic tools, like agents. That's when you're emulating what a human would do, and you're building workflows and orchestration. And there's certain risks around that. Again, it's incredibly powerful, and it's a great tool to build efficiency into every organization. But also, should be knowledgeable and awareness of when these agents are created, what kind of access do they have? What kind of skills and capabilities will they have?
One other thing I think is very important for people to-- organizations large and small to think about is, who has access to these tools? You may not want people who have high sensitive critical administrative access-- like, for example, your CFO, who has access to all your bank accounts, understands all the passwords-- do you want them to also be running certain types of AI or even building agents to do things personally or locally on their laptops or desktops? There could be a risk in that. So understanding of segregating certain roles and access from these tools and these AI agents is very important for every organization to think about.
And this is where I think it's so important, again, to say, even in the cyber world where you should be seeking out professional services, you also, in this AI and data governance area, should be seeking out teams. There are companies that will help isolate, segregate, and help you really do proper data governance on what you want.
One of the examples I often give when explaining agentic AI-- we talk about it. Most people don't. If you and I have a conversation, and you say, Ileana, I'm definitely going to send you that file after lunch, and I'm waiting all day going, when is she going to send this, I can ask my agent, theoretically, to go to your agent and say, go get that email she promised me out of your email. And your agent does. Because if the permissions have not been set up-- and you could have said, I want to look at that file before I send it to her, because I know it also has--
Because of the governance.
--sensitive data. But if data just goes, sure, my agent can just deliver things, and if we don't think that properly through, there can be a lot of data that is lost just because of lack of insight or lack of oversight.
So I want to pivot now a little bit to personal use of AI. I speak for myself and my family that we are using it in almost every area of our personal lives. I'm sure most people are. Will you just talk a little bit about how people are using it in their personal lives and how we should think about using it in our personal lives?
So I would say-- when I say a lot of us use these tools recreationally, rule number one, I would never-- I want you to sign up for a license.
Even personally?
Even personally, I would sign up with a license because it is giving you the ability to restrict certain things and turn off model learning. Use a different email when you sign up for this than you do for your banking, for medical use, or anything else important. You do not want the AI tool learning, oh, this is where BJ or Joe have the vast majority of their life. Because as fast as this technology is moving, the more you can keep things segregated, the better.
Anonymize your profile. You don't need to have your real name in the profile. You can make things up a little bit. But use a VPN, a virtual private network, which can be an app. There are several good ones out there. But what that does is it anonymizes your device from knowing, oh, this is from coming from BJ Goergen's home computer. It has no idea who the query is coming from. So it anonymizes you every time. Turn off the model learning. And I would also say take this time to also reduce your digital footprint in many, many places.
This is like the digital hygiene you two have been talking about. It's like AI hasn't changed it. It's made it more important, and more important immediately.
It's heightened it, yes, absolutely.
These are all best practices. I think, just to go a little bit deeper, turning off model learning, it sounds a little jargony, but what it's basically saying is you don't want the world to learn from the questions you're asking your ChatGPT or your tool and putting that as part of the larger global model. So I think people don't realize that these tools are constantly learning and bringing new information in constantly. You do not have to be part of that cycle. Every one of them, whatever product it is, has a way of disabling that so your information stays personal and private to you.
Yeah, so in the data and security section of your model, there is a-- "I do not want to share" is basically the essence of it. I personally really like-- I don't know if you know DuckDuckGo. So DuckDuckGo is a privacy browser.
I know it because of prepping for this conversation.
So it's a great install to do. But DuckDuckGo also has duck.ai, and it itself goes to eight different models. And it also keeps the chats personally on your device and goes out anonymously for you and ask the question. So I always think you want to talk to a lot of these tools not like know me better, but just asking for a friend. The less it knows about you personally and takes that information home, one, the privacy rules on a lot of these tools do not exist to a great degree.
So you're having to put the privacy in for yourself.
You have to put the privacy-- that's a great way to put it, BJ. It is not a fiduciary. It is not an attorney. You are not covered by HIPAA laws or anything else. And therefore, when-- a lot of people are now using these tools as therapists and sharing an intense amount of personal information. I recently dealt with somebody who was in the middle of a custody battle, and she entered in, did I overdose my six-year-old?
Well, in a custody battle, if that chat goes into the court of law, that is all knowable about that parent, which is very unfortunate. So these are the types of things that can be-- I think we have not yet really-- are just beginning to learn what damage they can also do.
Two other things that you all had talked about before, previously, is we talk about multi-factor authentication and passwords. I know that seems really pedestrian, but you both talked about it in prepping for this conversation.
Yeah. I would say, particularly for both the business and for personal, multi-factor authentication on anywhere offered. On a business, your insurance rates will go down the more you multi-factor. But more importantly, in the face of AI, where vulnerabilities are very quickly found, having a second factor of authentication to release money or to access systems or devices, it is critical as part of your security. I always say it's like the deadbolt on your door, not just the little jiggly lock. It's the deadbolt that helps keep things at bay. Personally, you should use it on anything and everything. Because again, these tools are moving so quickly.
And if there's a piece of software or a vendor or tool you work with and they don't offer MFA, I would be concerned about that in terms of what is the quality of that tool and other types of vulnerabilities or cyber risks. So MFA should be the standard, and everyone should be leveraging that in every connection.
So is there anything else that the two of you do personally that we need to know before we close out of this conversation? I feel like the two of you have a heightened level of awareness.
Yeah, it's a little bit different. It's not necessarily from security. But in terms of leveraging AI and these different tools, I don't go to-- I don't use one. I use multiple. And I almost treat it as a panel of experts. If I'm trying to learn something or get information, I will present the same prompt or question to several different of these AIs and then try to understand, OK, let's make sense of answers.
I just think relying on a single large language model or a single model, whatever version of that model is, I think is somewhat risky no matter what you're using these tools for. And I think you should be leveraging a variety of them. That's one of the personal things.
Yeah, and I think going to that, always verifying the source of any information. I think what has happened now-- previously when we had search engines, when we entered in a query, you'd get 20 responses back, and you'd be like, oh, I should have asked the question, or I can kind of find the link. We're now seeing things-- AI assistance coming forward and answering questions. Did I ask the question correctly? Is it misinterpreting?
Even though there are some AI models that are terribly popular right now, those things will rapidly change. And I think taking two steps backward and keeping your eye on the entire landscape is really, really important.
I feel like I could listen to this all afternoon, and it's such a flavor of what you deal with every day. Thank you so much for sharing some of these best practices and things to think about. We're going to link all of the materials that Joe and Ileana mentioned today with this webcast so that you have access to them. And Joe, Ileana, and our team at JPMorgan are here to help you and partner with you along this journey. Thank you.
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