Performance People Podcast

English (US)

00:00:03.960 — 00:00:22.000 · Speaker 1

If you create a different movement environment or a different environment for the brain, the brain can then change. I mean, we can speak for hours about the neuroscience of treatment, etc. but creating a little window of novelty is what opens up a window for change, especially if you're dealing with chronic pain.

00:00:23.480 — 00:01:59.590 · Speaker 2

This is the Performance People podcast brought to you in partnership with J.P. Morgan Private Bank. If you like what you hear or see, please do subscribe. It makes all the difference to our podcast and means it can be as good as possible with the best guess on as possible. Talking of best guests, we've got Kieran Cozier alongside me today.

I should say Doctor Kieran Casey, who's alongside me today. He's written this amazing book, Why Movement is Medicine? This chimes so deeply and resonates with me massively because I was one of these people. There are multiple versions of these, no doubt up and down the country and up and down the world all over, who have this real dichotomy right now of whether they should have surgery for some sort of spinal or neck complaint, or in fact, whether they just need to move more.

And I guess you're going to you're going to tell us the, the latter and explain why that might why that might be a thing. One of the most amazing things about your book, I just want to start off by saying this, because what a clever idea this was. So your preface, you start by saying who you are and that you believe that life is a gift and you say it should never be taken for granted.

I mean, it's dream like that for a living. I have the privilege of potentially altering the trajectory of someone's life. That all changed the day before yesterday. I nearly killed someone. I mean, what a hook for a book, because you then spend your entire time rummaging through the book, trying to find out what on earth happened to this person, what on earth happened in this storyline?

And it is clever because you string us all the way along right to the very, very end. So when is that your idea? Where did that come from? That thinking? Because normally these sorts of books, you know, they, they can be long, hard going. So was that a tactic to just keep people engaged?

00:01:59.630 — 00:03:00.600 · Speaker 1

It definitely was. Um, so yeah, I am not a writer. I haven't even read that many books in my life. So it was a bit of a like lockdown project. Um, I had this draft of a book that I wanted to perhaps one day do, and then Covid hit, and for a few months, I wasn't a chiropractor. I was literally nothing, you know? So I just threw myself into finishing this book.

So I had no, uh, plan plan for the book. I literally wrote it first. And then retrospectively, we were like, right, we need to find a hook. We need to find a name for it. And, um, I had all sorts of, like, catchy names, like pins and needles and like, like, I suppose, weird things. Um, but yeah, I think, um, why?

Movement is like, medicine became the actual name. Because once a patient knows why they have to make a change and we use that like we use education to help them to motivate a, a patient to, to want to make a change. Then movement becomes medicine.

00:03:01.200 — 00:03:29.920 · Speaker 2

If you're watching this podcast, you'll see that Kieran has literally sat right on the edge of his chair with his back perfectly straight. I mean, he is the picture of posture, health. Um, and I suspect you're really judgy about everybody that isn't looking like you right now. I mean, I feel terrible that we're sat down doing this podcast because littered throughout the book is this reference to the fact that, you know, sitting is effectively the new smoking.

So I feel terrible that we're sitting here doing this. Just just explained a little bit of a thing thinking around that.

00:03:29.960 — 00:04:03.340 · Speaker 1

Yeah. So, so good posture. Bad posture is such a massive talking point. Um, I don't think that there's just like one bad posture. Um, a posture is bad if you cannot get out of it. So I slouch a lot as a break. It's perfectly fine to slouch. As long as you're also able to sit up straight. Stand straight, move, etc..

So, um. But yeah, sitting is smoking. Um, sitting is the new smoking. There's studies done where it just shows the amount of time that you sit is directly correlated to the the potential for your back or your disc injuries.

00:04:03.340 — 00:04:33.900 · Speaker 2

So but all of us are sitting here panicking, literally sitting here panicking when you say that because we're thinking, oh my goodness. I mean, you know, most people have had a good chunky amount of time, sat behind a desk, whether it be at school, whether it be, you know, in um, at work, in and around work, just driving the car, sitting on the sofa, watching the telly.

I mean, there are so many reasons at a restaurant, reasons why we would sit down. So how how can we how can we work with what we are already in?

00:04:33.940 — 00:05:21.830 · Speaker 1

Correct. So so let's us so let's make it very clear like we aren't trying to fear manga anyone. That is the worst motivation to to like say that if you set you, you will get x and y and Z. It's just an educational tool. Um, you just need to get moving. Um, sitting is perfectly fine. As I said, I slouch a lot and slouching is perfectly fine as long as you can a get out of it, and b know what to do as a movement snack during the day.

So, um, lots of my patients. Phase. Phase one is we just get them introducing movement snacks, um, things like a like doorway stretch to get the shoulders opening up. Something as simple as that and something for the hips normally to to get the actual pelvis able to tilt and just move slightly easier.

00:05:21.830 — 00:05:47.710 · Speaker 2

And you're I mean, when you say you're sort of you're you call them snacks, but these are sort of bite sized things that you can do to improve yourself that are on your Instagram page. And this Instagram page is like exploding. So you're obviously really connecting with a group of people that feel like they they really need help.

What do you think is happening there? Where do you think? Why do you think they're coming to you for these these moments that they feel are helping them?

00:05:47.750 — 00:07:13.940 · Speaker 1

Yeah. So I think on the internet there's so much out there, there's so much good stuff out there too. I mean, there's there's a million people doing exactly what I do. Right. Yeah. There's so much good out there. Um, and I think to be seen, you have to be a little bit different. So I've got this persona of 80s music.

I was born in the 80s, just about 89. Um, so it's 80s music. It's a serious face. Um, and then we often use blocks like, like yoga block and, um, such a simple tool. I mean, like, if you haven't got a book a block, you could stand on a book, for instance. But if you create a different movement environment or a different environment for the brain, the brain can then change.

So, um. Yeah. I mean, we can speak for hours about the neuroscience of treatment, etc. but creating a little window of novelty is what opens up a window for change, especially if you're dealing with chronic pain. So I think that's what people see is like, oh, that looks weird. And then people try it. And it's something so simple, like standing on a block and then pushing against your like head as an example.

And that experience for the brain is like, so novel. It's like it's the brain's never done it before, never experienced it. And if you've had chronic pain in your neck just by, um, reintroducing a new a new movement stimulus, the brain has this potential to actually learn that. Um, so we call that neural reeducation.

It's my treatment protocol.

00:07:13.980 — 00:07:15.180 · Speaker 2

This is Nari.

00:07:15.300 — 00:07:33.420 · Speaker 1

Nari. Correct. So, um, it's just we've just put all the relative science into a treatment package. Um, I haven't invented neuroplasticity. Of. Of course, it's just it's just packaging it in a way that it is user friendly to the public and to to other clinicians.

00:07:33.460 — 00:07:50.340 · Speaker 2

I guess that's the thing, because people assume when they're faced with the challenge of surgery versus movement, how on earth can I get myself to a place where movement can actually do what they assume surgery would do straight away? But of course, it's not that straightforward or simple, is it?

00:07:50.420 — 00:08:33.680 · Speaker 1

It never is. And, um, we were speaking earlier, so my brother is an orthopedic surgeon. He's he uses the latest robotic tech. Like, he really is a great surgeon. And I interviewed him the other day as a podcast episode. And there is a stigma of like, oh, manual therapists hate surgeons. It's like, no, like surgery is essential if it is needed.

You know, um, surgery is at one spectrum, we're at the other spectrum, and every patient falls somewhere in there. Um, so yeah, I think there should be more love between professions. Um, I think historically professions are fighting over patients, and that's silly. You know, um, I think we should all put the patient's needs first.

And in doing that, you have to sometimes refer quicker than you think. You know.

00:08:34.039 — 00:10:00.950 · Speaker 2

It's interesting because when I first discovered that, definitely I was I was experiencing some really strange sort of symptoms, um, associated with, with disc issues and my back and everything else. First of all, it was things like, um, the first signs of that, I guess, were things like, um, a warming sensation down my hands and up my arm, which I couldn't really attribute to anything in particular.

And I wasn't struggling with grip or anything like that. It was more just the sensation, and I'd wake up and both arms would feel hot in the morning, and I'd have that sort of that. That wasn't tingling necessarily, but it was like a sensation. That was what was going through me, and it felt very foreign and very strange.

Um, and so with that, you sort of ask to inquire further about what might be going on and what might be happening. Um, and this concept that actually we've I suppose over time we will have wear and tear. And I suppose if you've been sporty when you were younger, which is what I was, I guess we didn't really prioritize anything around recovery when we were 14, 15, 16 and bashing out loads of hours, you know, on the playing fields with hockey or tennis or whatever it was doing, team sport, you know, as soon as you finished that, you'd rush in, grab your lunch.

That would take you ten minutes and then you'd be off to the next lesson and you weren't ever really thinking about the recovery aspects of it. I mean, how important is it that nowadays we just prioritize recovery or take it as seriously as we do the training or the performance aspect of a thing?

00:10:01.470 — 00:10:46.710 · Speaker 1

I would say your recovery is directly proportional to the amount that you can heal, to the amount that you can recover. Um, I mean, it sounds so obvious, right? Um, but yes, sleep is such a major pillar of, of of like, health and sleep is essentially when you're doing nothing. Right. Like, it's like when your body is truly recovering.

Um, and obviously some people battle to sleep. So then we have to do a few tricks to get them to help them sleep, you know, powders, etc.. Yeah. Um, but yeah, there's lots of things that will help sleep, you know, exercise your your overall diet. Um, social interaction. Love. Like we can speak about those, um, major pillars for like, health.

But yes, recovery is essential. Um, no one takes it seriously enough. No one does.

00:10:46.750 — 00:11:07.400 · Speaker 2

I guess elite athletes have always known about it. I mean, you yourself are an elite athlete for South Africa, so you've got that background too. What is it about that that it's taken so long to sort of democratize into a wider mainstream chatter, I guess, to really make people understand better that recovery isn't just for elite athletes, it's for everyone.

00:11:07.960 — 00:11:55.420 · Speaker 1

Yeah, it's a good question. Um, my wife, when I met her, she was not an exerciser. And I was like, you have to exercise. And she's like, why? Like, to her, exercise was just what you did at school. Uh, pe. So I think there is just this global education gap, you know, um, and that's why we write books and that's why we start talking is because we want to just educate and.

Yeah, um, education is key. Um, once, once black people understand, then they start to to think perhaps I'll, I'll introduce some good sleeping habits or some recovery, some better supplements. I've been dealing with patients for 15 years now, and people are difficult. And, um, Everyone has different motivations.

Some people lack a bit of fearmongering. But. But it's a small percentage of people. Um.

00:11:55.660 — 00:12:16.700 · Speaker 2

People just basically impatient as well. I mean, I think that's the other thing. Surgery, when it's thrown at you, feels like a solution that can that can make things change and happen faster, perhaps. I mean, it's so ironic because of course, there's so much more that goes goes with that. But is it that people are just these days so impatient and want things really fast?

00:12:16.700 — 00:13:07.110 · Speaker 1

Correct. And, um, they're rarely, rarely is a quick fix for anything? Um, by the time you see someone in a clinic room with with pain, it's normally chronic based. So it's been there for weeks, months, or even potentially years. And there is no quick fix for a a painful movement pattern. So yeah. So as long as we teach people to expect.

Right. Like you have to put your head down for the first phase at 6 to 8 weeks. That's how long the first phase of like, um, neurological changes happen. Then it's like once people have committed to a bit more than five minutes of scrolling, you know, so so you just have to somehow see what motivates the patient in front of you, um, and try and get them to commit to, to just some small habit over a few weeks.

Um.

00:13:07.630 — 00:13:19.230 · Speaker 2

How do you see and how do you see these sort of changes as they evolve? I mean, that must be a really interesting journey for you to go on with each with the I know every client is different, but for each and every client, that must be interesting to sort of see how that path.

00:13:20.030 — 00:13:37.590 · Speaker 1

Yeah. Um, I think a lot of it is we ask a patient, what is your pain preventing you from doing? And, um, I see people of all different ages. And if you think about, like an old person who has grandkids, it might just be pick up my grandchild again, or it might be put my shoes and socks on again, you know.

00:13:37.630 — 00:13:38.870 · Speaker 2

So it's really simple.

00:13:38.870 — 00:14:29.770 · Speaker 1

If you can get someone to, to to just get them able to do those small things again. It is euphoric to them. Um, I always wanted to be a sports chiropractor, and I realized that sports people are difficult because. Because you're always fighting for the 1% and or even, like even, like half, half a percent. So sports people.

Yeah. Like, it's hard to find that small gap. But if you see the average person, um, you can get massive improvement, you know, like massive movements, improvement, massive pain improvement, sleep improvement, everything. And, um, that's really fulfilling. You know, um, yeah, I so I started off seeing sportspeople, but you quickly see their mum and dad and their grandparents and their kids and stuff.

So it's definitely become more a family practice as opposed to a sports and family practice.

00:14:29.810 — 00:14:46.500 · Speaker 2

You're absolutely right about those marginal gains what they're looking for. Those incremental changes are obviously so, so much more marginal than what an average person might be expecting or might actually be able to achieve as well. Um, these eight movements that you recommend? What are they?

00:14:46.740 — 00:15:56.880 · Speaker 1

So the move made eight are the eight movement patterns on my YouTube channel. Um, there are just eight common movement patterns that we recommend to patients if we want to get their spine stronger and moving better. So some of them are hip, hip based because you want to be able to get the hip and pelvis more mobile, but also stronger, and then you want to get the spine itself stronger.

Um, I think historically some people are scared to move their spine because perhaps they hurt their spine bending and then they their brain and they're so like consciously and subconsciously, they've they've learned to not bend or be scared of bending. And often fear of movement is actually worse than the movement itself.

So we want to introduce movement again, whether it's spinal flexion and extensions, side bending, twisting, those all good movements. But but like very often, um, a very common comment on my Instagram is like, oh, you mustn't bend the spine. And I'm just like screaming. And I'm like, why? Why? Like it's the best thing for your spine.

Um, but obviously you have to be be very careful to tell people on the internet to do X, Y, and Z without getting a lawsuit. So there's massive disclaimers. Do not do anything that you see online.

00:15:58.760 — 00:16:02.520 · Speaker 2

Okay. So that's the that's the move. What do you call that. The move made eight.

00:16:02.560 — 00:16:03.200 · Speaker 1

Move made eight.

00:16:03.200 — 00:16:06.080 · Speaker 2

Yeah okay. The move made eight. So just break those eight down.

00:16:06.120 — 00:16:08.720 · Speaker 1

Cool. So the big three is push pull left.

00:16:08.760 — 00:16:10.120 · Speaker 2

So pull left.

00:16:10.160 — 00:16:57.930 · Speaker 1

Okay, so if the gym has any pushing movement, any pull movement, any squatting. So like hip hinging movement then we've got spinal flexion and spinal side flexion. Then we and then two for the spine that people don't think about is calf raises. So um yeah speaks for itself. And then there's a muscle on the front of the shin called the tibialis anterior.

People don't often strengthen that that actual muscle or that movement pattern that goes that comes from L4 five in the back. So if we can strengthen that nerve root pattern. It increases people's balance. It just decreases the chance of them falling so that that particular muscle is part of our spinal program.

And then the eighth one is the split squat. So like a deep hip hip extension with a hip hip flexion.

00:16:57.970 — 00:17:12.370 · Speaker 2

Do you know what I've got really into recently. Which I have to then counteract with some other, um, exercises which don't necessarily make you feel instantaneously like they're achieving something, but clearly are in the longer, bigger picture of the thing is nerve flossing.

00:17:12.410 — 00:17:13.209 · Speaker 1

Yeah. Cool.

00:17:13.449 — 00:17:28.290 · Speaker 2

Love a bit of nerve flossing? Yeah. Brilliant. Because you genuinely, instantly feel an effect. And if you are tight on either side, it feels like you're you are at genuinely releasing and flossing love. Extraordinary feeling.

00:17:28.290 — 00:18:00.470 · Speaker 1

So that was probably one of my biggest hit, uh uh, videos was we introduced a nerve floss, but in an atypical one because you get nerve mobilization, right? So if you like, um, uh, think about it. If you shorten your neck nerves, but then lengthen, um, in the arm, and if you come back that way, that's kind of moving the nerve in the sheath.

But if you trying to increase the nerve tension itself, you almost want to do that sometimes. But you have to be very careful and do it very incremental.

00:18:00.830 — 00:18:06.030 · Speaker 2

I think that's the problem. Everyone thinks that more is more, and it isn't always, is it? Where nerves are concerned?

00:18:06.070 — 00:18:18.710 · Speaker 1

No. So with everything long term you have to do it. Incremental. Um, that's how the brain brain works is there has to be a small degree of change with consistency. If it's too much, it's like a trauma to the brain.

00:18:18.750 — 00:18:42.080 · Speaker 2

So if you sit in an office, which most people you work do, um, what are the key things that you can do every single day? And how long is this going to take you? Because as I said, most people are impatient and want quick fixes, but they won't necessarily get them. But what can you do every single day to improve your situation with regards to neck and spinal injury.

00:18:42.120 — 00:19:21.680 · Speaker 1

Yeah, very good and very common question. Um, the first thing is the mindset of just make it part of your life. So if you stand up every 30 to 60 minutes during your workday, go walk as far away as you can from your desk. Go find a doorway and stretch through the doorway. So get the shoulders just moving backwards because they're all forward of our keyboards, of our phones, etc. so do something for the shoulders to get them back and then do something for your hips.

Whether it's a glute stretch or a little lunge hip like a hip flexor stretch. And when you get back to your seat, actively sit up as good as you can. Or if you have a standing desk, stand as as as good as you can.

00:19:21.720 — 00:19:24.800 · Speaker 2

I mean, would you recommend that everyone should get a standing desk?

00:19:24.880 — 00:19:52.900 · Speaker 1

It's a it's a good tool to have, um, some people don't like, uh, don't like standing too much standing. I'd say it also isn't good for you, like obviously varicose veins, etc., etc.. So the key is just movement. Every 30 to 60 minutes you have to be moving around. So if you have the luxury of a desk that goes up and down, it's perfect.

You know, stand stand sit. Move around. Um, the key is just avoiding the repetitive stationary postures.

00:19:53.300 — 00:19:55.780 · Speaker 2

What we're trying to avoid is technique, isn't it?

00:19:55.820 — 00:20:23.020 · Speaker 1

Exactly. And that's just that. And also a cosmetic thing is the bump behind the neck. That's called the dowager hump. Um, that's literally years of bad or like, average posture where the body is actually laying down fatty tissue as a cushion, literally. So you can, can fix the the bump cosmetically just takes years and years and years of better posture.

Take away the friction point and the body absorbs it.

00:20:23.060 — 00:20:48.030 · Speaker 2

As I'm talking to you, I'm so aware of my posture. I keep moving around, knowing full well that I'm probably doing exactly the sort of thing that really gets you, gets you stressed. Let's talk about stress, because stress is so much part of everyone's modern day lives, whether we like it or not, we're in it.

Um, and definitely people that are sort of link themselves to performance environments are really in it. So how do we combat it?

00:20:49.070 — 00:21:50.730 · Speaker 1

Yeah. So again, with stress, we have to realize that stress keeps you alive. So first of all, stress is good for you. Um, because I think stress and inflammation get demonized. You know, we're stressed and information will literally save your life. But when they become chronic and too much, then it's very detrimental to your health.

So if you are like the average person who's in this heightened, uh, life of too much information and too much stress, you want to be doing those breaks during the day to lower the stress levels. And probably the tool to like, take home for that is breathwork. You know, so if you're incorporating this every 30 to 60 minutes, standing up and finding a door to like go stretch, you can almost I wish I created this word.

It's called habit stacking. So while while you're doing a good habit, like stretching through a doorway. Breathe. And you can just do the, the, um, the classic physiological sigh where you breathe in through your nose too hard in breaths at, at, um, all the way out through your mouth. So like, uh.

00:21:53.930 — 00:22:12.330 · Speaker 1

So if you can just do a few of those breaths while doing a stretch, it will instantaneously lower your stress levels. And then you get back to your desk and then it starts to rise again. But as long as you're, like, toggling in and out of stress, it's okay. But you can imagine being being at your desk stationary with heightened stress for eight hours a day.

It's not going to be good for you.

00:22:12.450 — 00:22:31.730 · Speaker 2

Let's talk also about, um, endurance running and that sort of zone two recovery state that I guess is now being talked about a lot more, um, and is much more common in people's sort of training, thinking and psyche. Why is it really important to stick around and zone to.

00:22:32.730 — 00:22:42.020 · Speaker 1

So there's a million good reasons for that. But I think one that people don't often speak about is got to do with your lymphatics. So do you know what the lymphatics are?

00:22:42.060 — 00:22:45.580 · Speaker 2

Maybe you're gonna tell me. So I'm assuming it's got something to do with lymphatic.

00:22:45.700 — 00:23:10.900 · Speaker 1

Yeah. Yeah. Correct. So the lymphatic is no. So, so so your lymph is essentially the waste products of your brain's metabolism. So when you're deep sleeping and especially doing low impact cardio. So like zone two tap cardio, your brain is your body is trying to get rid of the metabolites that your brain has actually used.

So that's a major reason for it, right? Um,

00:23:12.420 — 00:23:56.760 · Speaker 1

the other reason is that it's, it's it's it's that exercise zone that is not hurting your body. It's helping your body recover. Um, and I, I probably learned this hard, um, the hard way when I was training for my sub three attempt. You you always compare to people like Mo Farah, who is doing his easy run at four minutes a Okay.

But that for him is is actually zone two or this was, was a um but I mean that is an easy run for him and, and I deal with, uh, quite a few of these like these like marathon, um, guys now doing two, 216, 217. It's it's wild. But if I compare to them, they're easy. Pace is now my tempo pace, you know. So don't compare to someone else's time.

00:23:56.760 — 00:23:59.160 · Speaker 2

But mostly an Olympic champion.

00:23:59.160 — 00:24:22.760 · Speaker 1

Don't compare. Don't compare to anyone else. Correct. Um, but you want to get into that zone most of the time. Um, if, if you're training easier, like I said, like old classics saying if you train easier when you do go hard, go very hard. Like you actually want to create a stimulus to change, but then go back into your baseline zone to for most of your training.

So if you look at like athletes.

00:24:22.760 — 00:24:24.600 · Speaker 2

The proportion of that, would you say.

00:24:25.480 — 00:24:26.440 · Speaker 1

Your, uh.

00:24:26.440 — 00:24:29.080 · Speaker 2

If you were going to put those into a percentage, what would that be?

00:24:30.040 — 00:25:04.010 · Speaker 1

15% is probably a ballpark. Yeah. So if you like look at the intensity. Most of the marathon guys are doing a lot of their baseline zone to to work with a few marathon efforts, you know, and then speed work. But it's it's a small proportion. I mean their warm ups and cooldowns are all zone too. So it's a small percentage.

Um, but if you're recovered and healthy enough to start the red effort, you can go as hard as you want. You know, you can go do like I mean hill sprint repeats, you know, create a proper stimulus for change, but then you have to let the body recover.

00:25:04.570 — 00:25:08.730 · Speaker 2

And that's the bit I guess the elite athletes understand. And the rest of us are catching up on.

00:25:08.730 — 00:25:34.510 · Speaker 1

Correct. And the elite athletes during they they day are having tea and having a sleep. Um, most of us are working so, so again, for the average person and I'll and I like treating and working with average people. Right. Like like me. I'm an average person. I have a job. Um, you have to take it into account that that your 40 hour workweek is not recovery.

It like it just is not recovery. You know so.

00:25:34.950 — 00:25:57.070 · Speaker 2

So I think that is the common misconception, I guess, that, you know, these guys are going out and guys and girls going out and smashing amazing different versions of sporting events over the weekend, then coming into work on a Monday just like anyone else and still doing a a full day. And like you say, recovery is not doing your normal work life piece.

That isn't what recovery means. What does recovery mean to you?

00:25:57.110 — 00:27:27.400 · Speaker 1

So it would be ticking off the five pillars of a of a healthy brain, which would be lens lends. So love like is your home situation good? Like do you have to apologize to someone at home? Do you have to do something? Or. Yeah. Like your love and your interactions with people. Is there a good emotional environment in your home?

Yes. Then you will recover. Really good. Obviously. Exercise. So sometimes it would be actually intense exercise if like for instance, we've got a almost one year old at the moment I'm just taking the bare minimum, the bare minimum for like, exercise, you know, so sometimes it'll be doing intense exercise if you haven't done enough or it's just going back into the zone two type stuff.

But there's four pillars of um, of like exercise. So we can speak about those later if you want. So l e n is the, the, the the novelty and the new environments. So my page is full of those. But at home a like new environment could be go read a book go if you haven't been outside. Go get go get some fresh air. Um. Introduce something new so that'll help your brain take, uh, take a awareness of the current stressful, uh, stressful situation.

Uh, d is diet, so that's obviously what you can put into your mouth, but also what you don't put into your mouth sometimes. And then s is sleep. So, um, prioritize your sleep. You know, put your phone off, dampen the blue lights in the evening, have a routine. Um, for sleep. I think the the body and brain love routine.

00:27:27.400 — 00:27:42.740 · Speaker 2

And the funny thing about sleep is that everyone just sort of does it. But actually you can affect it in a way where you can do it so much better than just accepting it's going to be something that happens at the end of every day, 100%.

00:27:42.740 — 00:28:38.470 · Speaker 1

And um, uh, one of my influencer friends gave me a watch again. So I've been tracking my sleep again. And, um, I did this a few years ago, and it was cool to learn exactly what effects it, you know, and, um, the like the wearables are good for broad stuff, you know, like, if you have an alcoholic drink, your sleep is affected.

If you have a very stressful day and train, train hard, your sleep, sleep is actually affected. So you can quickly see what affects you. Um, so it's it's cool to learn a bit about those things for you as an individual. But then I also found that that the wearable was actually causing stress for me, because then you wake up and you're like, ah, damn it.

Like, I actually felt pretty good, but my watch said I slept horribly, so. So I've gone through phases where I've had no wearables versus wearables, etc. but yeah, sleep is an interesting one. Um, we have a baby now, as I said. And, um, yeah, sleep now is when you really appreciate your sleep.

00:28:38.910 — 00:29:11.750 · Speaker 2

It's so true. It's so true. I think that's the thing about life. Like, you know, you can have all these different protocols, but actually you've got to be able to be fluid with them or at least flexible with them to a degree, because life will throw those different curveballs at you, right? Whether you're a parent or whether you know you've had a particularly tricky day at the office or you know you've had to work late or whatever, would there be so many different variables that account for whether you do or don't have a great night's sleep, you know, punishing yourself because it didn't work out perfectly according to your Woop scores is not ideal.

00:29:11.790 — 00:29:15.510 · Speaker 1

Yeah, and I think it is good for the the listeners to also know

00:29:16.550 — 00:30:03.210 · Speaker 1

you might be in a different phase of life. So don't compare to the influencer online who is apparently getting the best sleep and doing like x x x x y z because. Yeah. Like just see it at your phase of life. Perhaps doing the the like our red line therapy and Zen is not possible for you because your life is just in a busy phase, you know.

So get back to the basics. And I think that's probably a big focus of my whole life. Practice is just getting people back to basics. Um, there's there is lots of noise on the internet, uh, lots of good noise, but there's often just too much noise. So we just want to give people back to the basics. You know, focus on love in your life.

Some kind of exercise, something new, a good diet, some sleep.

00:30:03.210 — 00:30:09.330 · Speaker 2

And get up and move from this podcast show, which is exactly what I'm going to do now. Thank you very much. That's great.

00:30:09.370 — 00:30:10.410 · Speaker 1

Awesome pleasure.

English (US)

00:00:03.640 — 00:00:37.880

My time to myself is sacred. 7 p.m. everything goes silent. I do not answer emails. I don't look at my phone. I spend at least an hour in nature every day. I've had access to everything. The best that money can buy. I have a hyperbaric chamber there. I have an infrared sauna. Behind me I have a PMF right underneath me.

What I truly found, what nature has to provide, is the single most powerful thing that you could do about your longevity, and you holistically as a human being. There are certain aspects of my existence. There are non-negotiable. And these are some of them.

00:00:39.200 — 00:08:51.880

Um, doctor Ellie, I am thrilled to have you on this podcast because, um, it's not often I get to speak to a pioneering bio hacker about all things performance and longevity, but you are that person. So I'm going to quiz you on all of those things in just a moment. But before we get there, I wanted to establish your story.

Most people have a story that takes them down this path. Um, and and like all others, you'll have your own as well. And I just wanted you to expand on the year that things went wrong for you is sort of the year that you, you put down to learning a great deal about those various things and actually how to then come up with a toolkit moving forwards in life.

Can you just expand a bit more on on what happened and and why it led to where you are now? Well, thank you first for that introduction. My ego loved it. Um, I am I am really a the way I paced myself is that I'm always sort of learning and I don't know what I don't know. So it's always a learning process. So about my story.

Um, I think it's slightly different than most people. I don't have a, um, a like a life changing moment where I had this critical disease that I had to overcome. And so it's not in that sense. However, it's pretty interesting still. Let me take you back to the 80s. Um, I was born in Lebanon, um, And at the time, it was one of the worst time in the history of that troubled area.

I'm an only boy in a family, and they were like, literally knocking on door to door to pick up guys so they can join militias and things like that. Right. So it was one of those weird times that, you know, in humanity's history. Um, and, uh, I threw myself, I think it was a self-protection mechanism of throwing myself into into fitness.

Um, so I really, like, went down. I it was complete. And I later on in life, fairly recently when I began by recently, I mean like a decade ago when I began, uh, intersecting and looking at where my traumas came from and how did I get into this and people asking me this question, I realized this is where it started.

It started as self-preservation, um, that I was trying to be as strong as possible, just in case I was taken or if I can get away. Can I be strong enough to do that? Um. And then it turned Ironically, as life is always. Ironically, it turned out to be the the the the stem. The root of an incredible life. Um, so it could have gone very horribly wrong.

Thankfully, I'm here today talking to you. Um, and then throughout my life, um, I had instances where it kind of reminded me of. What does it mean? Um, to preserve health. What does it mean to keep it as your number one priority? Um, what does it mean to live life to the fullest? Uh, and, and I think different people have different interpretations for this, but my mind was another defining moment in my life when I lost both my parents within a period of, like, a three months, um, separation between them.

Um, which taught me a lot, by the way. As sad as it may be. And they both do chronic diseases, both to cancer. Um, and, uh, it was a different time, obviously, and I've learned a lot from them. But what happened is, um, it it helped me again. I only found out later at the time, I was, you know, feeling self pity and why the universe does this to you and all of that.

And then later on, you realize that everything happens for a reason. Um, and then it sort of threw me into, uh, because what happened quickly is that when my mom died, my dad followed her three months later. Um, so what happened is that I realized that my dad could have been much better. But what he lost mostly is his purpose.

Uh, and it's one of the things that I've actually studied quite a bit, you know, moving on. Um, and the importance of it and part of some of the research that I've done at Harvard was also in relationship to this. Um, so I've, you know, I learned very quickly that, uh, there are things that are perhaps not the most obvious, um, that contribute directly to your longevity and not leaving years on the table.

Um, and, uh, it was incredible to me to see for me to see that human relations have so much impact on our own health and our own longevity. Um, so I think I, I'm 100% believe that he would have lived maybe another decade if my mom was still alive. He just felt defeated and he just was ready to go. And then he went.

Um, so these these moments were other defining moments in my life. And this was almost like 20 years ago. That helped me to continue to kind of down that path and kind of grow more into it. And then later on, I found out that my sister is now fighting a chronic illness and is also cancer. She actually lives in the UK, too.

Um, and, uh, she's been suffering horribly for maybe seven years now. Um, and again, I don't know how much of this can be prevented. And there are obviously certain limitations. And because of our hubris and the way we approach all of this. Um, we think that we are in control. Um, that's why I fight against the current of how we talk about longevity and biohacking right now.

Um, as perhaps, you know, my focus is on on my region. So I don't speak globally. Um, because I think biohacking and longevity are very, um, geographical. They need to be geographically, uh, relevant. Um, so and I again, my approach to longevity, maybe we'll get into this later on is a little bit different.

So, um, that's kind of how it is. It's not that interesting. But for me, looking back, it just seemed like in perfect harmony of how these things were lined up for me to be, you know, where I am today and where my biological age is and where I am. And generally the influence that I have on my community, my family, my, my friends, my, the people that follow me and so on.

We'll probably get into it, but also this attitude piece. I mean, you you alluded to it there. But this positive mental attitude and the approach that someone can take via, you know, there's the defeatist attitude, like you say, or there's a I'm going to go and do something about this attitude. Yeah. And is there any science really behind how that can affect change but behind actually how that can can change things up for the better.

Just to have a great outlook. Well, there is science and pseudoscience. So there is that Harvard study that I've alluded to that was done almost for a century. Um, of of trying to find out, um, why or what are the sources of happiness? What are the sources of making people being more content and more purposeful in their lives?

Um, and it was exactly that. It was, um, the people around you, the community that you are part of, is, is having, um, a the chance or the environment that allows you not to blame the world. Most of us do. We think the world owes us everything, you know. Um, instead of looking at it as this is our habitat and habitats by definition.

Everything is there for you. Um, and obviously, there are certain things that you have to navigate for sure. Um, so there's that and, um, uh, the, the I don't know if you, if you know the definition of happiness, the definition of happiness. Uh, the one that I believe in, at least, um, is, um, life minus expectations.

Um, and that's kind of like the the formula, if you like, for it. Simplified, of course. Um, it's not not having expectations. It's about managing them. And you could be a lot happier. And that's what I think I do well. And the people that I consult with and the people that I work with, um, obviously, as I said at the beginning, I'm always learning.

Um, but I think I do that well. Um, and as you grow older,

00:08:53.120 — 00:11:11.390

um, and hopefully wiser, uh, you're able to do this a little bit better. Um, and if you tie this with a vitality of a younger biology, that's, I think, the best. That's why I love the time that we are in. We're able to do that. Um, and then the other side of it is the so-called blue zones. We're not supposed to call them that anymore.

And all of that, you know. But I mean, these guys, they don't buy a hack. They don't have gene therapies. You know, they don't do, um, stem cells. They don't, you know, they're not into all of that. What they do have, however, is purpose, culture, family, working the land, eating healthy, spending time outside.

And that's all it takes for them to live longer than the most. But most of us, you know, they do concentration in these areas. So I think we we overcomplicate it in a in a lot of sense. Um, so, uh, I think, you know, these are a good because when it comes about talking about this, we have little data. We think that, you know, we we know everything about this.

We know nothing. You know, that's perhaps less than nothing. And what we're doing is all conjecture. And it's all about, you know, um, sort of posturing and, and, uh, one a, you know, say that this is the ultimate and this is that and I want, you know, for clicks or for whatever. Uh, again, I like to hear myself say the word hubris because I want to control mine.

Always. Um, so, uh, there's a lot for us to still learn, but I think one beautiful and most powerful place to start is, uh, purpose and connection. Um, as an aside, I was listening to someone the other day describe talking about expectations and happiness Someone describe a successful marriage as marrying somebody with low expectations, which just it just made me made me giggle and make me laugh about what you had said there.

But going going back to the geography piece, because I think you're, you know, you're bang on when you're talking about this. I mean, you're you're specific to your region, like you say. So you're in Dubai and and why is it important to to have that in mind when talking about longevity, when talking about, you know, biohacking and these areas that we're we're discussing.

00:11:12.710 — 00:16:36.659

So with biohacking the word bio is your, you know, biology. It's the area that you are, you know, the environment that you are in. Um, and uh, if I, if I were to zoom out a little bit and start there, you may not love this, but, um, we're we're all one. Everything is one, right? And as you move in geography, whatever microbiome, whatever influences of that region becomes part of your microbiome.

So if I take someone in the US and take someone that lives in the desert with different humidity, uh, different ionization, um, different amount of light, uh, different types of food, water is different. Sleep interruptions are different. The way we, we see ourselves from a motivational perspective or from an ambition perspective, the way our family values are and so on.

Now all of these are pretty prominent. I cannot base my own health metrics at data that was collected in a very different by geography. So and it's funny, it doesn't only apply to people that were born here. You know, Georgie, if you move to Dubai in a few weeks time, your microbiome will become local. Yeah.

You know, we adjust, right? But it's such a it's such a it's such a sensible but simple concept. This. And yet I don't think many people grasp it because you have a sort of a globalization attached to this idea of biohacking. But actually it's as simple as we were based in New Zealand for a period of time, and my hay fever was off the charts there because I wasn't or hadn't been in any way, you know, hadn't been exposed to the various different pollen scenarios that grow there.

So of course, I had to learn that and become more receptive to it. And over time, I guess if I'd stayed there for a period of years, I would have become much better at dealing with that. So, I mean, it's simple stuff, but I don't think we we think of this in those terms, and yet it makes complete sense. Yes. I mean, it does.

And this is what you just said is the summary of our conversation today. Everything is it can be framed within, not, um, everything else is just fluff and maybe about 5 to 10% of influence on all of the stuff that we're talking about right now, and that's a fact. We know this, right? So what what is what is changing now and what the interest, you know, is growing in is the ability to reframe that mental image of how we see health and all of that.

But this doesn't mean that we all of a sudden have these incredible tools that do all sorts of things. It's just the simplest is the one the most powerful. And what I found is, um, the wisdom of the ages is the most powerful, uh, you know, biohacking tool and not, you know, the, uh, bulletproof coffee and, and, you know, my, my teenage sons blood and, you know, 120 different, um, supplements per day, and and, you know, all of that.

What truly matters, what I've learned the most is that the strongest, most antioxidant is my mother used to sprinkle infatuation, taboo, and, you know, all of that little stuff. And it's actually a derivative of, um, poison ivy, believe it or not. So it's called sumac. And you sprinkle it on hummus. You sprinkle it on all sorts of things, and it's part of our diet.

So it's something. And no one talks about it. We talk about all sorts of synthetic stuff. Don't you know. And again when you are following someone in the US or whatever else in the world, I want to pick on the US. Um, and they start, you know, with, with 80% of Americans or, you know, Europeans or whatever, that is not.

And for most people don't pick up on that, unfortunately. But the thing is, it's all about education. And that's what I feel where my purpose lies. Um, it's, you know, to two folds. The most important is education. And the second fold is being able to help as many people as possible, either by example, which is my number one thing.

Um, and then two is by, you know, physically being there for them. So it's really interesting because you mentioned earlier that you love the moment that we're living in right now, but at the moment we're living in right now. We are we are being thrown various different, you know, um, searches via algorithms and via our, you know, the things that we're already interested in.

We're getting pummeled with more of the same. And therefore our view is, is shrinking as opposed to broadening sometimes, unless we're very aware that that's what's happening and we take action accordingly. What is it, though, about now that you get excited by? I excited about I'm excited about the, um, how many people around me are actually changing their lives for the better?

Yeah, and I mean, in every aspect, because once you start focusing a little bit on your biology, everything else starts falling in line. Your relationships become better, you're happier at your job. Um, you're able to navigate traffic better. Your reaction becomes less and more of a, uh, an actual thoughtful Interaction and so on.

So I love that. And also because there are more people involved, you know, interested in this. Obviously you have to

00:16:37.780 — 00:26:45.640

always filter everything, right. So I think if we start there, if we start with education in that sense and say, just filter everything, you know, do it. And this has never changed, you know, from one decade to the other for whatever is the thing that we're dealing with, be it spirituality or be it physical exercise or now be it that focus and they're all kind of coming together, hopefully.

Um, we've always had issues with some people not filtering and not kind of stepping back and say, okay, this is this is humanity. That's okay. You know, we we go through this, um, just, uh, go through it from a filter. Um, the other thing that I love is how much AI is helping us do things so much quicker, um, in this space.

And the other thing for me, there are so many of them. Sorry, but one more thing is, um, how it's empowering us to take charge of our own lives. Now that's both exciting and scary, depending on who is taking charge of their own lives. Um, so, uh. But I love that. But it comes back to that education piece that you were talking about 100% and how important that that is.

And also, I guess, you know, we feel very strongly about, you know, being proactive about your own health and well-being. And I think that that also happens at a particular time in your life, because in your 20s, you normally feel most people feel fairly invincible. Um, challenging. Yes it is. Yeah. That is.

And why do you think that is? Why do you think that is starting to change? So social media? Unfortunately, I don't have a better answer. Um, so that's the one one thing in this space that is perhaps positive, you could name a few, maybe. Um, but more people are getting excited because cooler people than than me are doing certain things within that space when they see, I don't know the Kardashian, you know, sitting in front of a red light or talking about her recovery or whatever.

Yeah. Um, so more people are kind of aware of the younger age. Yeah. Yeah. So I now have people in there, you know, I have a 22 year old that is on my program, for example, you know. Um, and there's nothing wrong with her, by the way. Uh, but she realizes that the younger or the sooner she starts, the better is going to be for her later decades.

And that that's something we know for a fact. You know, so everything else is fluff, as I said. But, uh, um, uh, yeah. So I kind of really like that. So when you say live by example and that's what you're doing, you've got a t shirt with Limitless Human on it, which is your, your brand. How do I become a limitless human?

What do I need to do? Doctor Ellie Tate, tell me what I need to do. Save me. Um, I'm going to give you a revelation right now. It's life changing. It is the well. No. I'm kidding. Um. So you are already Georgie. Um. It's something that we just unlock within us. Um, and obviously, there's a protocol and stuff that we do.

It's. We hold ourselves back. Can you take a moment and just consider your biology? Consider the stuff that your body is capable of doing and the stuff that you've done already yourself specifically. Right? Not just create other humans, which is already a wow, you know, um, beyond us. Imagine all of the other things that you were able to do when I think, you know, my ability to run 50 marathons, for example, or Summit Mountains or do whatever, and just the fact that I'm able to stand here.

Um, and what does that mean for me? And the energy that I have and all of the stuff that I do and all, it's phenomenal. It's amazing. But I just unlocked it. It wasn't something that I had to put on me in order to become limitless, I just did a little bit of, uh, sort of introspection and a little bit of science and a little bit of commitment and discipline.

And then I started thinking, okay, so I have a certain amount of time per day within my, um, schedule, my life, uh, sort of schedule. Um, what would be the greatest return on investment for me in order to be as healthy as possible? Right. I can, you know, play around with all sorts of things. I can try to be cool because it looks good on my socials or whatever.

And I thought, um, no, I need to be more purposeful and more with more do it with more intention. Uh, and I began to implement these. And what worked, I stuck with and what didn't, I? I moved away from it. Um, and the general concept is actually pretty simple. What I love about the last decade, too, that we were able to measure certain things that we were not able to measure before, such as our biological age.

I mean, diagnostics now are just, you know, phenomenal. And because there's interest on the space. It's developing at a, you know, lightning speed too. So and they're becoming cheaper, more accessible and so on. Um, so becoming human is just a journey becoming limitless. I mean, um, it's it's just a journey.

There is no end, um, sort of point a destination. We are already there, and we have these incredible bodies that we live in. We just abused them. We let them go, and then we get surprised when something happens or breaks, you know? Um, and that always kind of shocks me when people are surprised that, you know, something goes wrong in their body, because if they really introspect and look back, they say, well, that is to be exactly expected.

Like, this should not be, um, a surprise to me in any way, shape or form. Um, what I find, no matter where I am, because I focus also on Africa, and I've set up just a clinic recently there, um, in Kenya. Um, that's called the Limitless Clinic, you know, aptly named, um, and, uh, uh, it's the same. It's the same there.

People are over nourished. They are over supplemented. They are under exercised and under recovered everywhere. You know, no matter what room I'm in, no matter what crowd. What audience? Most people overeat. That's like an overwhelming number. Um, and again, it's it's it's emotional. It's psychological, but it's also part of our humanity.

We're we're designed in our biology is that if there is food, we should consume it because we don't know what the next one. Obviously that's not true in modern life, but we have that, that, that sort of, um, trigger in our in our minds. Um, talk to me. Talk to me about the being under recovered bit, because I think also that's particularly pertinent in this day and age that we live in.

Yeah. So in the last couple of years, all of my research has been focused on that. Um, because what I found is that there's no middle ground. Very few people are in middle ground between working. And if we're talking about middle ground, we're talking about elite athletes. These are the ones that are really cracked the recovery aspect.

And they are elite athletes because they have cracked the recovery aspect. It's not because they they work out or exercise in a certain way that is different than the rest of us. It is in the recovery that they've cracked their performance. Um, so there's only a tiny margin of people that have it well, that have it in the right place, and then all of us are on either side.

There are either people that are aggressively pursuing comfort, and then there are other people that are either dabbling with, you know, workouts or overdoing it, and then you end up with all sorts of issues. For women, it's PCOS, for men, it's hormonal imbalances for, you know, and then you get frustrated because you think, okay, so exercise is good.

I'm going to do as much of it as possible. All right. So and the whole, um, balance between causing damage and allowing it to adapt, and then causing damage and allowing it to adapt. That is not exciting. What is exciting is the dopamine, the excitement of doing a class of doing, I don't know, sanctum, you know, movement or Pilates or whatever it is, right?

Or lifting weights or lifting more weights. Um, but when it comes to recovery, there's no real joy in it, so it makes it a little bit more difficult. It's mundane, isn't it? It's the mundanity, which I guess in the mundane. An elite athlete really understands that because they know that that consistency piece is absolutely key.

And doing that thing again and again, however boring it is, is going to get them to that next place. Whereas for the rest of us, I mean, it might be like, oh, go for a run. A well done me. I've managed to fit in a run, but you're not thinking necessarily afterwards of the warm up or the cooldown or what's required to.

Then make sure that the next day you're not aching in the ways that you shouldn't be. But I guess that's that's an education piece again, 100%. And what happens also is that we are creatures of habit, right? So if you love running, what do you do every day you run. And that's the only thing that you do. So what you're doing, it's a high impact sports that doesn't really benefit the rest of your systems.

And it actually eats into your muscle mass and all of that stuff and knees and all sorts of stuff that happen with you, and then you also not recover. I can guarantee you that if you go to my gym, the gym that I go to, you know, a few days a week, I can maybe 90% of the people there, I can tell you what they're going to do on a particular day.

Um, because they go in and they wire to this machine, then that machine and that machine, and they go home and they think that I've worked out. Um, you don't realize how incredible the body is at getting comfortable with something. This is what it does best. You know, it's no longer a workout after a few weeks because the body says, oh, we're on this machine.

Oh, I know what I need to do here. There's no need for me to develop even more or, you know, cause any trauma or, you know, the Hermetic Effect or any of that stuff, because I am used to this. I've adapted to this. Um, but people don't realize that. And then day in, day out, they're doing the exact same thing. And it breaks my heart to see this.

And, uh, you know, there's so much benefit in variety and being able to use the body's full potential to stretch, to lift, to pull to, you know, do things fast and then slow to to grab to, you know, all the amazing stuff that the body is capable of doing. Yeah, just mixing the whole thing up. Talk to me about the three body problem.

00:26:46.800 — 00:33:45.560

You like that? Yeah. Yeah. So I don't think I don't think many people got it for some. I thought, like, I might be, like, a little crazy. Maybe, like, people might have thought you're just ahead of your time. I might have thought that, you know. Why is he so weird? Um. So what happens in general so that what we focus on, as we said just now in the gym, is just one thing, right?

So, um, when you have one thing, your body kind of, or your mind is going to say, okay, so I can deal with this, but when you have two, um, you say, okay, so I can do this. Now, the combinations of having two things, let's say working out and recovery, um, and I'll say, okay, so with these two things right, I can get that down.

You know, I can organize it, maybe put it in a schedule if someone who is really committed, educated all of that about stuff, that stuff, they can get it down. But then let's say you add a third body problem, which is like mental health. Now there are so many variables for you to get it right. It just becomes a lot more difficult.

So you need a lot more intention. You need a lot more, um, you know, in the quiet moments, in between breaths. I know this sounds maybe counterproductive, but it is really important to tap into that, that, um, life energy that most of us ignore, um, which, which powers everything in us. Truly. Um, you know, if you want to want one one name for it.

Maybe it's flow space or whatever it is that you want to call it, but it's a moment where, you know, many believe that all or the most creative things that man has ever created via the Mona Lisa, be it the Sistine Chapel, whatever have come from that, that space where, um, you know, our logic, our, um, the way we do things with, with the ego and everything else does not allow it to flourish and, and bring, um, art finesse into it and some sort of order.

Um, so I was thinking about that, and I thought that actually also applies to health. Um, the, the when there is a three bodies are competing and you need to achieve all of them, it becomes so much harder for you to be able to manage them. Instead, what most people do is that they would draw into one thing that they're good at, and they leave that alone.

Um, well, instead, what you should do is lean into it first of all, and then step back and let it happen. Because when you trust of your biology, when you trust that everything is for you, when you trust that everything you need is under your feet or your pharmacy is under your feet, you know the soil is everything for us.

Um, when you begin to to understand the empowerment of how everything is for you, um, everything changes. It becomes it becomes a lot easier to digest. But how do you get there if you're if you're somebody like you, say, who's grappling with these three different things going on and there's a lot happening, how do you get to that place where, like you say, you just you just take a step back and have a deeper, more purposeful understanding.

Yeah. So I, I, I don't I don't think it's a place I don't think you get to it. It's like you, you, you go into it and out of it, it's like a it's like you have moments where you kind of feel okay. I'm not thinking of anything, and everything seems to fall into place. And then once you start focusing on one thing, all of the others fall apart.

And then you, you zone out and you're not thinking of anything, and everything comes together. Um, you know, so I don't think it's something, a state that you get to, uh, maybe as humanity. You know, one day we will, I don't know. Um, but, uh, I think it's constantly a journey. It's the same with health. I always say to people, we are on a thin line.

Um, you know, the way we're designed. We're designed to take a lot of abuse from everything around us. But we're also designed to, um, you know, to to find ways to improve our, our own immunity. Um, so we're walking a thin line. Some days are good and some days are bad. That's why if you track your measure, your your temperature, for example, or resting heart rate or HRV, you see it constantly doing this.

Your body is constantly trying to adjust to every handshake you have, every chair you sit on, every carpet you wake, walk barefooted on every, you know, um, toxins that are in the food or the air that you're breathing right now or whatever. And what about sleep? I mean, you talk about the fact that it's so helpful now to be able to track stuff.

I mean, that is that is a great big performance gain right there that you now can have the ability to track. And I know it's it's still elementary in those in, you know, the technology piece. But it is getting there. And like you say we now have it at our fingertips that we can be our own masters and commander of, of of our sheep, of our sleep ship.

So just just talk to me a bit about why sleep is so fundamental to all of this and and and yeah, just a shine a light on it, if you will. There is no greater adaptation period than sleep. We can try anything. It does not matter. You could do peptides. You could do this. You could do nothing is as powerful as sleep.

And we've known this not recently. What I like about also the study of sleep is that we've been studying it for a long time, while everything else is fairly new. Um, so we know that, um, uh, quantity is not as important as quality. We know that. We know that even by increasing a few minutes of deep sleep or REM sleep has, you know, a compounding effect on your, uh, growth hormones, your muscles and your mental health.

Uh, we know this for a fact, so tracking these few things. And but let me just do a little caveat here. What is happening now, just in in true humanity, um, flair is that now we're obsessed with tracking, you know? So, um, it doesn't work that way because when you are obsessed, you are then kind of influencing.

Yes, you're getting into a vicious cycle. Um, so it becomes, you know, when you wake up in the morning and you're wearable, your tracker or whatever it is is telling you you didn't sleep well even though you feel okay. Um, you end up not feeling you okay. It influences you. You take it for its word, as if it's the all knowing, not thinking that it is simply an algorithm that measures 2 or 3 things in your body, and it's guessing whatever is happening with you.

You are far more complex than this. You know, I'm not saying not to measure, but what I say to people is that look at averages. Look over a week, a month, a year, and then look at, see, look at the events that happened in your life and see what influenced them positively and what influence them negatively and do more positive and less negative.

That's all you need to do. If you go on a on a night to night, it's just your worst nightmare, you know? So, um, having said that, I have like three different trackers I use.

00:33:47.600 — 00:43:05.420

But I do look at them. Every device known to man, I suspect at this point. But that's that's that's that's part of your shtick, you know, to be able to trial these things and rule some out and rule some in. So do you. So do you sleep with a data wearable now? Yes, I do, but I don't do it all the time. So what I do this is my this is my, um, strategy, if you like.

Um, so what I do is I wear a ring that measures it, but I don't wear it throughout the year. So I have these bouts where I. And then I look at my general average and think, oh, okay, I'm still on track, so I don't have to have it all the time. Yeah. And then I pair it. When I do this, I pair it with the CGM. Um, so then I'm also tracking my metab, so I, I love stacking, right.

Because you can't think just per, like, sort of pigeonhole certain things you have to stack in order for you to get a much better, much better picture. Um, so and I also, the way I pair this is that with cheese and cheese and season changes. Um, so because obviously your biology reacts differently. Circadian rhythms are different.

You know, the temperatures are different. Your body counts. Constantly is adjusting. So I do a cycle. Well, every major change in weather and just it guides me to kind of see in general how well I'm doing so. And then I have I'm fortunate enough to work with eight sleep. Um, and so I represent them here in the region.

And I have all of the eight sleep stuff. So I love eight sleep because it is, it's it's gentle in nature. Um, it's not as aggressive as wearables that are specifically designed for athletes. Um, you know, I won't say any names, but you know, the ones I mean. Um, so eight sleep, however, is very gentle in a way that it reports, you know, and it's more accurate because your whole body is being measured.

Uh, the the EMF is super, super low. Um, so I like what it does. And because it works with temperature, it can actually use that data immediately in real time. In order for you, this is turning into an ad for them. I don't mean that. Um, but, you know, it's a it's a it's because because it uses in real time. It's incredible.

It's another use of of of technology is incredible. Yeah. Well, exactly. It's like you say, it's sort of what you can use that is affordable to you now by like you say by nature of what's out there technology wise, but also sort of knowing that you talk about the circadian rhythm, which is, you know, one of my great loves to talk about the circadian rhythm.

But definitely, again, you know, that chimes back to just just be using the wisdom of of something that has always been there. This internal body clock has always it's not a new device. It's just about how we now understand it better and how we can adapt it. And I guess that plays a major part in what you're talking about, because to understand your circadian rhythm is to determine all of it 100%, like perhaps seeing light first thing in the morning as soon as you wake up, is perhaps the single most powerful thing that you do throughout your day.

Like, you know, that's. That's it. How silly is that? Most people think. What? Like, you know. What are you talking about? No, it must be this. It must be that. It must be, you know, a fancy infrared sauna. It must be whatever it is. Not a circuit where we're part of our environment. Everything is in tune and works perfectly.

And an incredible balance. We know if we change the height of a step on a stair, we trip. We know that if we change the temperature of 1 or 2 degrees, half of what what exists dives, we there are these, you know, undeniable facts about how critical balance is. And we are a part of that balance. So being able to use the simplest of all, um, you know, light temperature, um, air and where you are in your, in your mental state, there are incredibly powerful.

And I found managing your circadian rhythm no matter what you do. Because a lot of people I was I was in Kenya over the weekend and I had a I had a talk there and I had quite a few people in the audience. I said, well, you know, I work night shifts. I would do this, I do that. How do I manage circadian rhythm? I said, you all, you can you can fake it.

You can fake circadian rhythm by doing. And this is where tools can come in. And I said, I said to them this is, this is only a, a a a temporary period of your life. It doesn't mean that you're going to be like that for the rest of your life. You just adjust now to do the best out of it at the body is extremely resilient if you allow it, if you give it the tools.

Um, so yeah, I can say, I guess the same as you. I can talk about circadian rhythm forever, but actually that does rather neatly lead us on to a toolkit, a toolkit to basically put together what you can to really maximize performance, longevity, and, and bio hack away. What? What is what is the best, best possible toolkit for that?

Yeah. So, um, I say to people, you need something you can track something that you. And I don't mean tracking in a, in a in, in the social media sense. I mean, in, um, in an overall like your body, again, remembering that our bodies don't work minute to minute, it's, it's averages that it loves. Um, so for me is, um, so and this is how I build my program around.

I build limitless even around biological age, because reducing or slowing down your biological aging is perhaps impossible. If one thing is not working well, be it your mental health, be it you know how well you sleep, be it you know your variety of exercise, um, be it what you put in your mouth, uh, how you treat others, how you treat yourself.

Um, have you let go of your traumas? Um, and so on. If you're, you have a purpose, community, all of that. So it makes you work on all of these at the same time. And then if I want to zoom in a little bit more, I would say mitochondria if you can work on optimizing your mitochondria. And we know so much about that now, um, then you you should be set.

However, it is not the end all. As I said, we and this is I get all the time, you know, the number one thing. What is the one thing that you do? If I only have one thing to do, what would that be? And that I think when people kind of say that to me, I say that, you know, in my, in my, inside of me, what I think is that, you know, they're they're still on the journey.

They need to understand that this does not this is not how it works. There's nothing in life that is the one thing. It's always a combination of things. And when it comes to your health, you you diminish some of the single most important thing that is, you know, afforded to you to try to hack it with one thing.

You know, um, I always joke and say, just get really good health insurance. Um, you know, that would be the easiest thing for you to do. Um, so, uh, but seriously, though, I think that the stack for me, what I do is that my time to myself is sacred. Um, 7 p.m. everything goes silent. I do not answer emails. I don't look at my phone.

Everything is put away. Um, I spend at least an hour in nature every day. And I know these. All of these sound mundane, but they are the single most. I've had access to everything. Everything. The best that money can buy. All of the toys. I have a hyperbaric chamber there. I have an infrared sauna behind me.

I have a PMF right underneath me. And there is nothing that I haven't that I don't have or have access to. What I truly found is what nature has to provide is the single most powerful thing that you could do about your longevity and you holistically as a human being. Um, so there are no, um, there are there are certain aspects of my existence.

There are non-negotiable. And these are some of them. And then I show up when I show up, I'm 100% there. When I show up to people, I'm there. Um, so for most of us, we always try to think of an excuse of why these things don't happen. You know, while I sleep later, I can't wake up in the morning and do it, but this works for me.

Find what works for you. Um, no. So, uh, it's a few things like that. Nothing. Nothing. Um, that will kind of be groundbreaking. Perhaps, uh, for this. Yeah, but that's the whole point, isn't it? That is the. That is the exact the exact point. I just want to finish on what the future looks like. I mean, we have come so far.

Like you say in the last sort of you share that incredible story. And it's not an insurmountable story about, you know, where you grew up, how you grew up, how you decided to sort of prepare yourself for what you felt would be an inevitable one way or the other. And then obviously, your family and the various suffering that you had to deal with in that very difficult year that you would have had and how it got you to where you where you are now.

What does the future look like for the space and the world that you're in?

00:43:06.860 — 00:44:50.130

Um, I'm very, very optimistic about it because more and more people are realizing that we need to take a step back, that we don't know what we don't know. Um, that if only, um, you know, if we only increase the population age by 10%, there will be chaos. You know, it's not about years. It is about living a meaningful life.

And we've known this for decades. Forever. You know, So for, for, for millennia, we've known it's all about purposeful living. Um, if we're if we're focused on that, I think we would be in great shape now. What I love about the time that we're in and the future that is coming, is that certain technology now is going to help, hopefully.

Obviously, there's always a, you know, a plus and minus hopefully guide us to or act as a good tool for us to be able to get there little quicker, you know, so access to knowledge can be, you know, two edged sword and it's, it's who has and how it's being used. Um, so I'm very optimistic, however, about the new generation and everyone that is coming with that space as the norm of thinking of my health, of not too long ago, we were, you know, bragging about, um, how little sleep we get now.

We brag, what is our our v, you know. Um, so we've made a huge shift. And if we continue on that project, I think, you know, the future looks very bright. It's an optimist. Yeah, well, you are absolutely an optimist, as you should be. And I'm. I'm sorry, I thought that. What behind you was a photo booth and not, in fact, an infrared sauna.

00:44:52.290 — 00:45:15.290

Um, doctor. Ellie, you've made my morning. It's really great to have spoken to you. It's given me a really good perspective for the day. Moving ahead, I'm going to make sure I turn all my devices off from 7 p.m. tonight. And tomorrow morning, I take my dogs for a walk and remind myself why. That's a really important thing to do.

Thank you very. Thank you very much. My pleasure, my pleasure. Thank you for being so kind. Uh, so, so accommodating and for being so amazing.

00:45:16.450 — 00:45:17.690

Oh, don't.