Apr 15, 2024
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Performance People Podcast
J.P. Morgan Private Bank in partnership with Performance People and host Georgie Ainslie shines a light on the remarkable journeys of athletes and entertainers from around the globe.
Descriptive audio
English (US)
00:00:03.960 — 00:00:26.920
You cannot sit still in sports world as it is now. You will die if you want the America's Cup to be something that just people play out every now and then and sailing around in very beautiful looking yachts that go walking speed and specs out in the distance. Well, fine, but it won't be a sporting event that is taken seriously anymore.
00:00:28.640 — 00:06:25.380
Okay, this is the Performance People podcast in partnership with JP Morgan. And today's guest is none other than my husband, Ben Ainslie. We are fresh. I say we're fresh. We're not really fresh, but we are back, at least from a really exciting time in Abu Dhabi, where Emirates GBR clinched the sole GP series championship.
In fact, we won loads of stuff. We won that particular weekend and the flagship grand finale, we won the Impact League. Whilst we win when something else wants one season, one get run the whole season, which is obviously a major. Yeah, I guess you could call that a triple. It's a treble. It's a triple treble.
So, um, how are you feeling after all of that? I mean, everyone's hangovers have subsided and the reality has set in that it's the end of a another busy year. But I mean, what a result. No, it was an incredible event. And what a performance from the team it was. It was difficult certainly on Saturday, not a lot of wind and saw big turnaround in the fleet.
You know the the teams at the top of the table maybe being a little bit conservative, obviously keeping an eye out on who could make it into that top three for the grand final. So we saw not unusual teams at the front. Denmark in particular sell brilliantly through through the weekend. Uh, Red Bull Racing with Phil Robertson on the on the helm driving um you know had a big step up in performance and also Mubadala you know Brazil you know in the lighter ads we saw them USAA so some of the teams that have struggled a bit this season coming to the fore.
But yeah, the grand final. What a race. I mean, that was one of the the all time greats for SailGP. I mean, that sort of a race like you say. I mean, when they happen in SailGP, they're really spectacular. But this was a race where, you know, over the course of the entirety of its duration, the lead just kept on changing.
He did. It did, and you did. I mean, we do see that a lot with this racing on these tight race courses. Aussies nailed the start ourselves and the Kiwis a little bit back. I think we did a really nice job to split away. And for me, a lot of people talk about the Windward Gate as being the deciding moment in the race.
I actually think it was the leeward gate before that, and the our team just did a really nice job to come in, give themselves an option. And they did what we call the just sort of JC maneuver, which is this sort of tack around the leeward gate managed to keep on the foils in these sort of light conditions, and that then split them from both Australia and New Zealand and gave them all the options, which then came to four at the top gate.
So it was it was really fascinating. And ultimately a lot of it came down to being in the right place, right time. Of course, how the wind played out on that final down when they before the turning, turning mark to the finish and it just fell into place for our team. But you know what? They really deserved it.
They've sailed brilliantly all season. They really, you know, put it all down on the table and um came away with a win. Um, watching you watch that race was sort of a spectacle in itself. Um, and, and I think there's two parts to this question. The first part is, um, you know, what was running through your mind as you were watching the action unfold on the racecourse, but also like, how did it feel for you not being in that boat?
Because I know, I know, it's been, you know, a tricky a tricky year in that regard where you sort of stepped away from it. Dylan's taken it forward and done an amazing job. And we'll talk about that job that he's done in just a moment. But just talk about, from your perspective, what it feels like to watch your team out there contesting for those wins.
Well, all I can tell you is, is way harder watching than it is competing. I got that feeling. So for all of those, all of those parents and family members and fans out there that have been pulling their hair out for years on end, watching their loved ones out there competing or the team that they really support and really want to win.
Oh, what a nightmare. I mean, your emotions are all over the place. It's a mix up. Well, yeah, it's quite. And there was some, some great comments being thrown at me left, right and center. So it was a it was a really you know, it was I think it was, it was, it was emotional. What can I say. Yeah. It was a bit emotional because it's been a really sort of tricky, torrid and quite tumultuous year that, you know, that team and, you know, us personally have gone through as well.
So to end it on a high was obviously really, really meaningful and obviously meant a great deal to a lot of people. The job that Dylan's done over the course of this year, just to sort of explain his contribution to the team. Well, incredible. A massive ask first off, to come into a team where Giles had come in last season, done a really good job, had, you know, a few ups and downs but done a good job.
Then Dylan being asked to step in this season and just straight off the bat came out with a win in Sydney and I think they were in the top three in the first three events they competed, which sort of a little bit of a honeymoon phase if you like. Then inevitably a few, like I say, wobbles set in, but you know, there were just a few slip ups.
So mid-season not great. And then did a really good turnaround. Got their act together. Final half of the season. Pretty much super consistent right at the top. And like I say so deserved to be the overall seasonal leaders if you like. And you know a lot of that is is credit to Dylan. You know coming in being able to really show some leadership.
I think he's learned a lot from the involvement with the with the Cup team as well.
00:06:26.540 — 00:07:13.960
So that and then of course, just the team around him both on on the water but also off the water support. You know, Rob, Rob, Rob Wilson, Ben Cornish, Nick Robbins and the coaches. Boof. Those guys have also played a really key role in in supporting the sailors. And it's great to see that team come together and develop the way they have.
What about what is it in his character that sort of gives him that sort of confidence, I guess, to throw himself into the deep end and and really ferociously attack what's in front of him. What is it about him? What's in him that you recognize and see? You know, there's a leader there. Well, look, I think he's a fighter first and foremost.
Yeah. Desperately wants to win like all top performers do.
00:07:15.040 — 00:08:04.700
I think definitely an element. After being taken out of SailGP in season one, they wanted to prove to everyone. So just remind people what happened there. That took him off the boat. And then because it's all part of his story and part of the reason why this season with him helming the boat was so spectacular and resulting in a win.
Yeah, well. Okay then. Well, ultimately we or I took him out of the GBR team, which was slightly acrimonious at the time. And I do remember having a conversation where I. So what? No. But what are led up to that? What was the thinking behind that? What happened? Well, well, Dillon and his team got involved with.
He was flying on the GBR for GBR in season one, and they didn't have a great season. And
00:08:05.740 — 00:08:15.100
that was, you know, probably just down to getting used to the boat. And there were a lot of things going on in season one with SailGP, as in expecting a fledging sort of circuit.
00:08:16.300 — 00:08:33.620
And then we had the opportunity to get involved with some sponsorship. And so we we ultimately took that, which unfortunately for Dylan and the team around him, meant that a lot of those people, um, you know, lost their seat on the, on the team, on the boat.
00:08:34.780 — 00:13:14.110
So I phoned up Dylan. Right. Which of course, is the right thing to do. An awkward conversation, as you expect. And, you know, understandably, he was seriously pissed off. And that which wasn't until you basically missed a spot on the boat. Right. That's right. Yeah. So it wasn't a surprise to me. So it never would be that he was always going to be pissed off and rightly so.
And, you know, as I said to him at the time. Look, I understand your position, but all I can tell you my advice, having, you know, been around for a bit is that none of us know how this is going to play out. And I understand where you're at, and let's just see what happens in the future. Now, here we are, some four, four years later or whatever it is, and he's SailGP champion now.
I'm sure he probably would have preferred it to have been a different route, but you never know actually, having had that chance taken away from him. You know, he had to really go away and earn it and fight for it. And, you know, to his credit, he really did fight for it. And, you know, I think to answer your previous question, that is part of what drives Dylan to want to be successful is to prove to the world just what a great sailor he is.
And you know, he did that this weekend alongside the rest of the team. Yeah, we're going to start to see. I suspect as SailGP grows and as more teams come to the table and, you know, there's more driver spots available, I suppose what we're going to start seeing is, you know, some drivers are set apart from others.
There will be the likes of Tom Slingsby, Pete Burling, Dylan Giles all playing at the top of the table. Um, what are their common traits, would you say? What do they have most in common? Yeah, I would say right now you have maybe a handful of, of of what you saw your, your superstar drivers and they are probably game changers.
And then you've got another group who are close to that. But you know, for a reason, not quite there. And then you've got some new people coming in driving these boats. And and also, let's not forget, it's not just about the drivers. I mean, the flight controllers, the the wing. I mean, everyone on this flight commander's commanders is my flight commander.
Flight commander Parkinson. Commander Parkinson, it's absolutely critical. But, I mean, every role is really critical. Yeah, there's not one role in these boats. If you're not delivering, you're going to let the rest of the side down. So of course there's a lot of emphasis on the drivers. But it's it's a real team game.
Also in the what we call the adrenaline lounge at, um, at these big SailGP weekend events, I guess if you're likening it to formula One, it would be the Paddock Club, something like that. But where all the sponsors go, where all the money is in the adrenaline lounge, watching the sort of spectacle over the weekend, and it is kind of like squeaky bomb time on a Saturday when there's no wind and you're thinking, oh my God.
Like, how are we going to entertain these people and showcase to them what this sport can really be like, you know, with decent conditions? Um, but on a Sunday, you got everything you wanted in those conditions, in those moments, you looking around the room at the sponsors that are alongside you and thinking, oh, thank goodness for that.
And actually this could lead to literally some really serious, serious deals being done. But yeah, of course. And it's a commercial sport and we need those partners to reach our budget to, you know, be able to compete, etcetera, etcetera. Actually it's interesting because on the Saturday we didn't have great conditions and I know the league, you know, Russell Coutts running the league was seriously frustrated because it got such a great package.
And then the wind doesn't deliver. And this is the final and end end. But actually the majority of the people there still said wow, that was still great racing. It was amazing to see the boats as close as they were. And there was I think there were a few collisions and there was lots of action. But of course we all closed the sport, know what it can be and desperately want it to be.
And Sunday, you know, did deliver and the boats were foiling and it was that much better. But yes, the commercial side of it is, is is just as competitive as it is on the water and there are some fantastic brands now involved with SailGP. You know, the very highest level of global sports with SailGP. And that says a lot about the league and where it's going in the future.
Yeah. What I mean, when you think back, it's sort of in its fifth season now. Well, it's about to tip over into the sixth season any time soon. Um, but, you know, you think about the journey that it's been on and what Larry Ellison and Russell Coutts have been able to put together in that league. I mean, you know how serious a sporting prospect is it now?
00:13:15.590 — 00:14:25.000
I mean, it's it's it's serious. It's really serious. I mean, just off the back of this last weekend, we potentially, you know, signed three significant sponsors off the back of that. Okay. Maybe they would have signed anyway but certainly didn't hurt the fact we came away as a as champions. And you know we're going to be a considerably inconsiderable profit next season.
I mean, I've been involved with professional sailing for 30 years, pretty much, and I've never had a profitable team. So I'd say that's that's massive. And I know with the league the deals that they're doing as well, the broadcast figures that are coming through on the back of Abu Dhabi, there's serious, you know, growth in Europe.
And of course, the trick is to keep going. You know, I know the plans that the league have got in terms of new venues, how to make the league more efficient, new teams coming in. It's really, really exciting and great for the sport of sailing. What would you most like to see happen in the next year or so? Well, the league's concern,
00:14:26.560 — 00:15:34.620
I guess from my probably more of a macro perspective it would be the broadcasting is really key. Of course it is. When you look at any professional sports league circuit, It's about the broadcasting numbers and you've got to have that growth. And the league does have that. How does it develop that, you know, whether it's in the different regions.
And I think when you look at some of the statistics, some regions you wouldn't necessarily expect to be that high are and others that you think, well, you know, that's a really strong sailing nation. They should be doing much better. Why are they not so? I know that's a real focus for again, for Russell and the rest of the team at the league to get on top of that.
Of course, at the moment SailGP is sort of the main sailing proposition that's out there. But the cup. So the subject of the the America's Cup, which is kind of the thing that everyone wants to ask you about first when they speak to you at the moment. But I thought it was important to talk about what happened this past weekend or the past, the past few days.
That's right with GP first. But let's get to the subject of the cup. Done deal?
00:15:36.900 — 00:16:54.730
I think so, yeah. Yeah. Which is incredible in itself for the cup. The history of the cup. We all know that 1851 when it takes all. And now that's changed and I think for the better, because you can't really survive in that mold of when it takes all the. Certainly in the last ten years or so it's been dwindling.
And you get to the point where Team New Zealand to survive, have to start taking the event offshore. So then you get away from hosting it and you know, the the winning team's home port. So that's kind of shift. And we're seeing that across all global sports that they're getting. There have to be commercial or they die.
And that's the same with the America's Cup. And I think this gives it a real massive shot in the arm. So we're talking here about this partnership deal that has been struck between the sort of founder members of this of this partnership arrangement. And I mean, is the purpose of the partnership. We'll talk about the sort of, you know, what the perceptions might be of this, but is it to ensure the longevity of the Cup?
Would the America's Cup have continued beyond this, this previous cycle that we've just had, if this partnership deal had not been signed?
00:16:56.130 — 00:17:24.770
Arguably not. I mean, we're in a challenging position as challenger record as we have been for this last cycle. And, you know, just Kiwis have won for the third time in a row. Amazing achievement. But, you know, really struggling to see where does it go next. And how does this commercial how does the cup become more commercial.
Would it have survived another cycle? Probably, yes. Would it have survived another, you know, 3 or 4 cycles? Who knows?
00:17:25.810 — 00:18:46.330
Anyway, the reality is that we've created this partnership, I think, for much for the betterment of the America's Cup. And this is now about how do we create a sustainable sports product that gives the cup the opportunity to survive another 175 years or whatever it is. So it's, uh, it's going to be a challenge bringing these teams together in partnership to develop the the event both on and off the water.
But I think it's very much needed. How did you bring Grant Dalton to this, to this table? I mean, without him, it's not happening. He's the defender. He has the keys to the castle and fundamentally gets to make that call as to whether this is or isn't a goer as far as a partnership agreement is concerned. But hard thing to come to the table and you're the guy that's got it all.
Yeah it is. And credit credit to him and Team New Zealand for seeing that opportunity. It's really fascinating. A lot of discussion of course, is about the America's Cup. So many sailing fans passionate about the history of the sale of the America's Cup. But actually, when you delve back into Barcelona or even before Barcelona, I mean, I remember having a conversation with Grant and, uh,
00:18:47.530 — 00:19:18.810
you know, give friend out a formula One about come on, we need to have a look at this. We've got to properly try and get on to get to grips with the commerciality of this thing. And I know a lot of the other teams involved were pretty much actually all of the teams, other teams in Barcelona were having similar conversations.
And then during the event, actually there were some some meetings that were hosted by by Doug de Vos. Uh, there were other meetings that were hosted by different individuals. But again,
00:19:20.010 — 00:21:26.919
all of the teams were were with the same mind that we need to do something here. You know, we've got an incredible event. It's got so much history, so much prestige. But, you know, where do we go from here? Because this isn't really sustainable. And and, you know, now we're at the point that we've got all those teams that are committed to the partnership moving forward.
So I think that says a lot about everyone's enthusiasm to really, you know, get to grips with this and do something. What do you know on the inside of the cup, having had a cup team at the last three cycles and other cup teams in a similar position that people on the outside don't recognize about the stresses and strains of running a cup team and why it requires a partnership.
Well, it's always been the case that you have a defender and a change of record. The defender is really in the hot seat and they are defining the strategy of the event where it is, when it is, what the rules. Then you have the challenge of record, which is effectively but what our organization has been for the last two cycles, and they have the opportunity to get involved in those discussions, but they're kind of playing catch up to a certain extent.
Then you have all of the other teams who really are playing catch up, and I think it's kind of got to the point now that everyone's lost enthusiasm for that structure. And when you've got a team as good as Team New Zealand are and people are looking at saying, well, you know, surely they've fudged it, surely they've bent the rules in their favor to win three times in a row.
And having been the person on the other side of that negotiation, I can tell you they they really haven't. They've just been bloody good. I mean, I would say they're arguably the best team in the history of the Cup, but nevertheless it creates an environment of kind of mistrust and disillusionment that why why can't we be competitive.
And ultimately
00:21:28.080 — 00:24:15.459
the event needs to become more sustainable financially. It needs to be cheaper to participate. It needs to still be cutting edge technology, and I don't think it can lose that sort of technological competition, that formula. Formula one has been so successful with. And we need that in the sport of sailing.
So I think it very much has its place alongside SailGP. I mean, no one can argue that SailGP hasn't been a huge success and really earnt its place right at the top of the sport. But America's Cup is a different competition. I think, you know, you can liken it to the Ryder Cup or something like that, or, you know, it's a sport that's got real, um, prestige and special event status.
We've talked about how SailGP is a really obvious investable product now. Is the Cup now an investable product? Was it investable before in the way it is now? Absolutely I think so. And I think it is. It is. It is an investable product. Now the American. Yeah I mean the difference he's looking at the America's Cup to say SailGP.
SailGP is a franchise model and proven to be a really successful franchise model. America's Cup. It's a it's a partnership. So ultimately the teams, the founding teams will all own an equal share in that partnership. Uh, that's just pluses and minuses. But ultimately, the plus side is that you're this is an event with incredible heritage, prestige, and if you can do a good job and really maximize the potential that it has, then those teams, not only they're the individual team's values, but also their shareholding in the partnership should be really valuable in the future.
Can you run something like this by committee? I mean, you're talking about people with seriously big pockets, deep pockets who've been mega successful in business personally. Um, a lot of wealth, swilling around a lot of opinions swirling around. Just give people an insight to what those conversations have been like to get this over the line, because it's taken a long time.
Yeah. It's been it's been bloody hard and kind of somewhat understandably so, because like you say, you've got all this history, you've got 170 odd years of history, you've got a lot of opinions, you know, valid opinions. Teams that have won the cup recently won the Cup before, um, been hugely successful in other sports or other walks of life, other businesses and you know, understand we all have valid opinions and trying to get that across the line, it's been incredibly hard.
I mean, there's been some really, really tough conversations, but we're there. And
00:24:17.220 — 00:24:54.430
now ultimately the the partnership will be run by a professional management group. You know, there'll be a board of the teams, but the management of the event will be both on and off. The water will be neutral, and that's the first time that's ever happened in the cup. And I think that is what is the shift that's needed to really maximize the potential in the event.
What do you see your role as having been in the last like 12 months, in terms of getting this to a point where it is now a reality? How would you kind of reflect on that?
00:24:57.590 — 00:24:59.830
I could get multi-faceted.
00:25:00.950 — 00:25:17.229
I probably could be a little bit careful, I say at this point, but no, it's it's it's it's it's been it's been challenging bringing everyone together. And you know, like always you can look back in the last 12 months say, I might have done a few things differently, but
00:25:18.430 — 00:27:28.240
ultimately we are we are now there. And that's taken, you know, a lot of, um, patients. Um, a lot thick skin and a lot of symptoms, a lot of late night phone calls to New Zealand. But yeah, we've it's been it's been a learning experience, let's put it like that. How do you I mean, when we get to the point where it is finally Christmas and you can kick back on a sun lounger and sort of park some of this.
That'd be nice. How are you? How were you sort of reflect on what you've done because you've obviously I mean, there's no going back from here. This is now this is the cup moving forward. I mean, it's a huge seismic shift for the competition. And there's no there's no going back from it. So how do you reflect on on what needs to be delivered to make that call a successful one.
Yeah. Look I think it's it's needed. And there are going to be traditionalists who disagree and don't like it. And I think we should be sailing around in class yachts and all the rest of it. But Ultimately I think they're, they're they're wrong and or the the people racing in Barcelona last year also think that this is where we need to go.
So we've just got to crack on and absolutely make the most of that potential. I mean, there will there will be some people who say, oh, um, this is a direction of travel that was never intended for the Cup. And for 170 years, it's run perfectly well as a competition which retains a USP in global sport, which it does as having this sort of mystique around it, which makes it special, which makes it a marquee special event, kind of a sport.
Um, it won't it won't have that same thing going for it. It'll have a whole other load of positives, obviously coming, coming to the fore. But are you are you aware of that. Are you, you know, do you feel that quite keenly? Yeah for sure. I'm cognizant of all of the opinions out there. Like I said, I'm convinced that this is what needs to happen to the event.
Otherwise, it is just going to, very sadly, slowly slip away.
00:27:30.240 — 00:28:50.220
Pretty much every other major sporting competition in the world is evolving, has had to evolve. When you look at the advent of social media, the attention spans of generations of sports fans now, you cannot sit still in sports world as it is now. You will die. So if you want the America's Cup to be something that just people play out every now and then and sailing around in very beautiful looking yachts, that gave, you know, walking speed and specs out in the distance, well, fine, but it won't be a sporting event that it's taken seriously anymore.
So yeah, it's it's it's a brave call. It's a tough, tough one to make. But again, I come back to the fact that all of the other teams sat there in Barcelona. or at exactly the same view. Bloody hell. We've got to do something here and fast. So the only fly in the ointment, I guess, is how you dovetail with what is a very successful current global traveling circus of a series in SailGP.
Because as far as I can tell, you're pretty much the only sailor of that caliber other than Goody Paul Goodison who hasn't got a drive in SailGP. So what do you do for drivers for the Cup teams?
00:28:52.060 — 00:28:54.700
How's that going to work? Has anyone thought about that?
00:28:57.220 — 00:31:44.510
I'm not. I'm not sure what the point is around SailGP, but, um, anyway, the point. No, but it's a really realistic concern that if there are going to be 15 races of a SailGP calendar and the cup becomes a biennial event, sorry, you're talking about the defected sailors and how can they compare? Like the cup becomes a biennial event and you've got 15.
Where are you going? Me and goody. Because last time goody and I raised each other was in 1996 or 2000. Was Barcelona. When he was for American Magic. And you were your team? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, maybe. There we go. Um. Can't believe it's easily forgot that. Um, but the point the point being is that, look, there's a hell of a lot of amazing talent in SailGP.
Do you need to be doing SailGP before you can do these cup boats? Or can you just skip to it? From Olympic class to the cup boats? I mean, how are you going to find the talent to sail these cup boats when the SailGP season's super busy? Yeah, I mean, it's very different now, whether it's America's Cup or SailGP, that transition for talented young sailors or talented Olympic sailors is so much more straightforward than it was when I was looking.
Getting involved. The America's Cup, sailing a laser, for example, back with Paul Goodison in 2000 to the America's Cup that took many years to understand the match racing game and sailing these boats. that were 35 tons and just big lead mines. Now they're high performance. You're going from high performance to high performance and okay, there's a team element, but it's much more straightforward.
You know in terms of the events. There's definitely a job to be done to make sure that the events surging America's Cup are complementing one another, rather than fighting over sailors and fighting over schedules. How do you make that work out with the schedule? To my mind, it's really clear America's Cup is the special event status in sailing.
It's the Ryder Cup, it's the football World Cup. However, when you compare it and certainly is the Formula One circuit, it's the Champions League. That's the, you know, 15, 20 events a year globally. And if we look at it that way, then the two events should really complement each other and gives us the best sailors in the world, the opportunity to race into really complementing series.
And that's if we do a good job of that. You know, the whole sport, both events are going to really benefit from that and create something that we've all. You know, since I was a kid growing up getting into sailing, it was always a real challenge to get people to understand the sport to to maybe follow it. And now we're getting audiences.
You know, last SailGP event in Abu Dhabi, I think 4 million viewership. That's, as I understand it, arguably the highest watched sailing race in history. And that's the opportunity that we've got now.
00:31:46.030 — 00:31:50.150
Have you big question chosen your sailing team
00:31:51.190 — 00:31:53.710
for Cup World. No.
00:31:54.950 — 00:32:23.370
What's the sticking point. There isn't really a sticking point. It's just understanding the schedule and understanding you know, who the right people who obviously had a great squad last time. I think we'll see a lot of the same faces on the boat again. Uh, maybe some changes. Um, but, uh. Yeah. Still to be defined.
Are you one of those changes or are you putting yourself on the boat?
00:32:25.290 — 00:32:28.530
Quite possibly one of those changes. I don't know. Time will tell.
00:32:30.330 — 00:32:40.769
Still so elusive. Still. But what are the considerations you have to make when considering that when weighing that up? Well, for starters, really important that my wife thinks
00:32:42.770 — 00:33:05.450
that's the first time that she heard you actually say that out loud. So that's nice to hear. Yeah. Finally, we walked into that one nicely. Yeah. Uh, no. I mean, joking aside, you know, I'm obviously got a, you know, you've got a great family set up in 48 years old. Uh, you know, I've got a hell of a lot going on in terms of business side of of the sport.
So,
00:33:06.690 — 00:33:09.530
you know, can I offer anything to to the team?
00:33:10.770 — 00:34:12.850
You know, it's it's kind of actually it's not really my decision. It's other people's decision. And if I can contribute, if I can help in any way, um, then, then I will. But at the same time, like I said, I've got more than enough on otherwise. It's a bit of a dilemma, though, isn't it? When you come to think of it, because, you know, like we've said earlier, there's only a handful of people that are really good out on these boats, of which you're one of them.
So you know that it's your team, um, taking it forward. Um, you know, most people would expect you to put yourself on the boat. And I know you talk about the fact that, well, I'll do what's right for the team. What would be right for you? Because you signed off in Barcelona with a really historic placement, which hasn't happened before.
Um, and, you know, obviously went around close to the Kiwis and the final but didn't ultimately clinch it but got close. So what, you know, how do you feel. Where's your head up. Yeah I mean ultimately it was frustrating to get to the final not win it. And again credit to the Kiwis.
00:34:16.330 — 00:34:44.569
I. There were lots of quite a few. Including yourself a lot of people asking me. Was that the end of it in Barcelona. But for some reason it wasn't. It didn't feel like that was the right thing. You know, it wasn't. Also, I didn't really want it to be about the last thing we had from Barcelona was was me retiring.
You know, it was a great achievement for the team. And it kind of felt like it wasn't it wasn't really the right, the right thing. So
00:34:46.330 — 00:35:33.260
are you still are you still? I think the reality is I probably won't won't sail in and in Naples. But will that be. Will that be a regret if you don't? To not sign off the way you wanted to sign off. Yeah. Of course. I mean, the regret will be not winning the cup in Barcelona. But, I mean, you know, this isn't the perfect world that we live in, is it?
So, you know, it kind of is what it is. I don't know what to give that percentage split in terms of whether will he or won't he? I'm not sure which side that's that's really coming down on. We'll have to revisit that at a later. I don't know. I mean, it sounds really corny. I know people just think, oh that's that's rubbish.
But he's honestly. And actually when we started the team back in 2014, I remember some people saying, oh, are you gonna steer the boat or are you going to even be on the boat?
00:35:34.300 — 00:35:39.620
Uh, it's the same answer. Then I'll do whatever is the right thing for the team. And
00:35:40.660 — 00:35:58.620
I've had to make some really tough decisions for the team in terms of other people on the boat. But also, you know, we've got a fantastic coaching team. Rob Wilson leads that, you know, at any time before that he said to me, look, Ben, you know there's someone you're not up to it. You're not. But I would have
00:35:59.860 — 00:36:49.280
that would have been, that would have been it. So it's not it's not just my decision. There are a lot of people involved in that. And That's the way it has to be. Can you win the next one? There's not a lot of time. There's not a lot of time left. It's taken a really long chunk of time out of this cycle, debating, conjecturing about this partnership agreement.
Meanwhile, the Italians have been quietly going about their business and are fully funded and have a direction of travel that's in the right direction. Um, the Kiwis obviously doing the same thing. So that leaves everybody else to effectively, like you say, play catch up. Are we going to be we're in a transitional phase as it is anyway.
Are we going to be competitive enough to win it?
00:36:50.880 — 00:37:15.260
Yeah, I think we've got a chance. Obviously it's been tough the last 14 months is, you know, we've singlehandedly had to had to fund this thing. Uh, we managed to keep a core technical group together really critically. So we've been working on designs and ideas around designs with what the rule changes look like they're going to be for the boat, but we haven't been operating at the level of the narrator and the Team New Zealand.
00:37:16.340 — 00:37:19.420
What can we do in these 12 months?
00:37:21.500 — 00:37:35.820
Yeah, that's the that's the key to it. You know, clearly we've got a great package. We've got a great team on and off the water. The team that I expect that will come, you know, the sailing team that we'll be able to bring back to the fore. So
00:37:37.100 — 00:38:12.200
yeah I definitely put us in the dark horse category. But I wouldn't say it's impossible. I guess I'd like to sort of end this podcast by returning to a question I normally ask people right at the very beginning of it when they're first coming on, but I think it's actually quite relevant for you. Um, and good to sort of revisit this.
And this is how we sort of round things off. Defining moment of the year. What would you say it's been? There have been quite a few seismic moments, but what what would you say has been the sort of defining one that you could put a pin in and say, actually, from that moment, everything else came, came for.
00:38:16.840 — 00:38:22.000
I probably can't answer that question because really, the defining moment should have been this last weekend in Abu Dhabi.
00:38:23.320 — 00:38:39.800
But, you know, there had been, like I said earlier, there'd been some plenty of ups and downs this year and some really critical moments in terms of getting this partnership across the line. Yeah, I think the whole the whole year has been one massive roller coaster ride. But
00:38:40.960 — 00:39:40.649
between Abu Dhabi getting this partnership across the line, finishing off on, you know, really, really positive note and looking forward to strong 26 and beyond. Yeah. Do you know what mine is? If I was reflecting on this last year, having kind of had half a glass to the wall, listening in on all of these conversations and sort of trying to pick out what is or isn't happening.
Um, and like you say, things seem to progress and then regress. Very. It's like two steps forward, one step back, two steps for one. Anyway. Feels like feels like, you know, now, now that is sorted and it is sort of going in the right direction. I think that Abu Dhabi weekend is the seismic moment, because I think it's a the kind of the, you know, the shift that the whole team needed to be positive about what comes next.
Yeah, I think you're probably right. Yeah, I put that down. And that's a very positive note to end things on. All right. Back to your whiskey and whatever it is water. Or is it apple juice. Apple juice. I've got a bit of a cold. So this is actually a brandy. So
00:39:41.690 — 00:39:48.850
there we go. Mine however, is just a sparkling water. All right. Brilliant. Cheers. Cheers for big year. Good health. Cheers, everyone.
English (US)
00:00:03.960 — 00:00:26.920
You cannot sit still in sports world as it is now. You will die if you want the America's Cup to be something that just people play out every now and then and sailing around in very beautiful looking yachts that go walking speed and specs out in the distance. Well, fine, but it won't be a sporting event that is taken seriously anymore.
00:00:28.640 — 00:06:25.380
Okay, this is the Performance People podcast in partnership with JP Morgan. And today's guest is none other than my husband, Ben Ainslie. We are fresh. I say we're fresh. We're not really fresh, but we are back, at least from a really exciting time in Abu Dhabi, where Emirates GBR clinched the sole GP series championship.
In fact, we won loads of stuff. We won that particular weekend and the flagship grand finale, we won the Impact League. Whilst we win when something else wants one season, one get run the whole season, which is obviously a major. Yeah, I guess you could call that a triple. It's a treble. It's a triple treble.
So, um, how are you feeling after all of that? I mean, everyone's hangovers have subsided and the reality has set in that it's the end of a another busy year. But I mean, what a result. No, it was an incredible event. And what a performance from the team it was. It was difficult certainly on Saturday, not a lot of wind and saw big turnaround in the fleet.
You know the the teams at the top of the table maybe being a little bit conservative, obviously keeping an eye out on who could make it into that top three for the grand final. So we saw not unusual teams at the front. Denmark in particular sell brilliantly through through the weekend. Uh, Red Bull Racing with Phil Robertson on the on the helm driving um you know had a big step up in performance and also Mubadala you know Brazil you know in the lighter ads we saw them USAA so some of the teams that have struggled a bit this season coming to the fore.
But yeah, the grand final. What a race. I mean, that was one of the the all time greats for SailGP. I mean, that sort of a race like you say. I mean, when they happen in SailGP, they're really spectacular. But this was a race where, you know, over the course of the entirety of its duration, the lead just kept on changing.
He did. It did, and you did. I mean, we do see that a lot with this racing on these tight race courses. Aussies nailed the start ourselves and the Kiwis a little bit back. I think we did a really nice job to split away. And for me, a lot of people talk about the Windward Gate as being the deciding moment in the race.
I actually think it was the leeward gate before that, and the our team just did a really nice job to come in, give themselves an option. And they did what we call the just sort of JC maneuver, which is this sort of tack around the leeward gate managed to keep on the foils in these sort of light conditions, and that then split them from both Australia and New Zealand and gave them all the options, which then came to four at the top gate.
So it was it was really fascinating. And ultimately a lot of it came down to being in the right place, right time. Of course, how the wind played out on that final down when they before the turning, turning mark to the finish and it just fell into place for our team. But you know what? They really deserved it.
They've sailed brilliantly all season. They really, you know, put it all down on the table and um came away with a win. Um, watching you watch that race was sort of a spectacle in itself. Um, and, and I think there's two parts to this question. The first part is, um, you know, what was running through your mind as you were watching the action unfold on the racecourse, but also like, how did it feel for you not being in that boat?
Because I know, I know, it's been, you know, a tricky a tricky year in that regard where you sort of stepped away from it. Dylan's taken it forward and done an amazing job. And we'll talk about that job that he's done in just a moment. But just talk about, from your perspective, what it feels like to watch your team out there contesting for those wins.
Well, all I can tell you is, is way harder watching than it is competing. I got that feeling. So for all of those, all of those parents and family members and fans out there that have been pulling their hair out for years on end, watching their loved ones out there competing or the team that they really support and really want to win.
Oh, what a nightmare. I mean, your emotions are all over the place. It's a mix up. Well, yeah, it's quite. And there was some, some great comments being thrown at me left, right and center. So it was a it was a really you know, it was I think it was, it was, it was emotional. What can I say. Yeah. It was a bit emotional because it's been a really sort of tricky, torrid and quite tumultuous year that, you know, that team and, you know, us personally have gone through as well.
So to end it on a high was obviously really, really meaningful and obviously meant a great deal to a lot of people. The job that Dylan's done over the course of this year, just to sort of explain his contribution to the team. Well, incredible. A massive ask first off, to come into a team where Giles had come in last season, done a really good job, had, you know, a few ups and downs but done a good job.
Then Dylan being asked to step in this season and just straight off the bat came out with a win in Sydney and I think they were in the top three in the first three events they competed, which sort of a little bit of a honeymoon phase if you like. Then inevitably a few, like I say, wobbles set in, but you know, there were just a few slip ups.
So mid-season not great. And then did a really good turnaround. Got their act together. Final half of the season. Pretty much super consistent right at the top. And like I say so deserved to be the overall seasonal leaders if you like. And you know a lot of that is is credit to Dylan. You know coming in being able to really show some leadership.
I think he's learned a lot from the involvement with the with the Cup team as well.
00:06:26.540 — 00:07:13.960
So that and then of course, just the team around him both on on the water but also off the water support. You know, Rob, Rob, Rob Wilson, Ben Cornish, Nick Robbins and the coaches. Boof. Those guys have also played a really key role in in supporting the sailors. And it's great to see that team come together and develop the way they have.
What about what is it in his character that sort of gives him that sort of confidence, I guess, to throw himself into the deep end and and really ferociously attack what's in front of him. What is it about him? What's in him that you recognize and see? You know, there's a leader there. Well, look, I think he's a fighter first and foremost.
Yeah. Desperately wants to win like all top performers do.
00:07:15.040 — 00:08:04.700
I think definitely an element. After being taken out of SailGP in season one, they wanted to prove to everyone. So just remind people what happened there. That took him off the boat. And then because it's all part of his story and part of the reason why this season with him helming the boat was so spectacular and resulting in a win.
Yeah, well. Okay then. Well, ultimately we or I took him out of the GBR team, which was slightly acrimonious at the time. And I do remember having a conversation where I. So what? No. But what are led up to that? What was the thinking behind that? What happened? Well, well, Dillon and his team got involved with.
He was flying on the GBR for GBR in season one, and they didn't have a great season. And
00:08:05.740 — 00:08:15.100
that was, you know, probably just down to getting used to the boat. And there were a lot of things going on in season one with SailGP, as in expecting a fledging sort of circuit.
00:08:16.300 — 00:08:33.620
And then we had the opportunity to get involved with some sponsorship. And so we we ultimately took that, which unfortunately for Dylan and the team around him, meant that a lot of those people, um, you know, lost their seat on the, on the team, on the boat.
00:08:34.780 — 00:13:14.110
So I phoned up Dylan. Right. Which of course, is the right thing to do. An awkward conversation, as you expect. And, you know, understandably, he was seriously pissed off. And that which wasn't until you basically missed a spot on the boat. Right. That's right. Yeah. So it wasn't a surprise to me. So it never would be that he was always going to be pissed off and rightly so.
And, you know, as I said to him at the time. Look, I understand your position, but all I can tell you my advice, having, you know, been around for a bit is that none of us know how this is going to play out. And I understand where you're at, and let's just see what happens in the future. Now, here we are, some four, four years later or whatever it is, and he's SailGP champion now.
I'm sure he probably would have preferred it to have been a different route, but you never know actually, having had that chance taken away from him. You know, he had to really go away and earn it and fight for it. And, you know, to his credit, he really did fight for it. And, you know, I think to answer your previous question, that is part of what drives Dylan to want to be successful is to prove to the world just what a great sailor he is.
And you know, he did that this weekend alongside the rest of the team. Yeah, we're going to start to see. I suspect as SailGP grows and as more teams come to the table and, you know, there's more driver spots available, I suppose what we're going to start seeing is, you know, some drivers are set apart from others.
There will be the likes of Tom Slingsby, Pete Burling, Dylan Giles all playing at the top of the table. Um, what are their common traits, would you say? What do they have most in common? Yeah, I would say right now you have maybe a handful of, of of what you saw your, your superstar drivers and they are probably game changers.
And then you've got another group who are close to that. But you know, for a reason, not quite there. And then you've got some new people coming in driving these boats. And and also, let's not forget, it's not just about the drivers. I mean, the flight controllers, the the wing. I mean, everyone on this flight commander's commanders is my flight commander.
Flight commander Parkinson. Commander Parkinson, it's absolutely critical. But, I mean, every role is really critical. Yeah, there's not one role in these boats. If you're not delivering, you're going to let the rest of the side down. So of course there's a lot of emphasis on the drivers. But it's it's a real team game.
Also in the what we call the adrenaline lounge at, um, at these big SailGP weekend events, I guess if you're likening it to formula One, it would be the Paddock Club, something like that. But where all the sponsors go, where all the money is in the adrenaline lounge, watching the sort of spectacle over the weekend, and it is kind of like squeaky bomb time on a Saturday when there's no wind and you're thinking, oh my God.
Like, how are we going to entertain these people and showcase to them what this sport can really be like, you know, with decent conditions? Um, but on a Sunday, you got everything you wanted in those conditions, in those moments, you looking around the room at the sponsors that are alongside you and thinking, oh, thank goodness for that.
And actually this could lead to literally some really serious, serious deals being done. But yeah, of course. And it's a commercial sport and we need those partners to reach our budget to, you know, be able to compete, etcetera, etcetera. Actually it's interesting because on the Saturday we didn't have great conditions and I know the league, you know, Russell Coutts running the league was seriously frustrated because it got such a great package.
And then the wind doesn't deliver. And this is the final and end end. But actually the majority of the people there still said wow, that was still great racing. It was amazing to see the boats as close as they were. And there was I think there were a few collisions and there was lots of action. But of course we all closed the sport, know what it can be and desperately want it to be.
And Sunday, you know, did deliver and the boats were foiling and it was that much better. But yes, the commercial side of it is, is is just as competitive as it is on the water and there are some fantastic brands now involved with SailGP. You know, the very highest level of global sports with SailGP. And that says a lot about the league and where it's going in the future.
Yeah. What I mean, when you think back, it's sort of in its fifth season now. Well, it's about to tip over into the sixth season any time soon. Um, but, you know, you think about the journey that it's been on and what Larry Ellison and Russell Coutts have been able to put together in that league. I mean, you know how serious a sporting prospect is it now?
00:13:15.590 — 00:14:25.000
I mean, it's it's it's serious. It's really serious. I mean, just off the back of this last weekend, we potentially, you know, signed three significant sponsors off the back of that. Okay. Maybe they would have signed anyway but certainly didn't hurt the fact we came away as a as champions. And you know we're going to be a considerably inconsiderable profit next season.
I mean, I've been involved with professional sailing for 30 years, pretty much, and I've never had a profitable team. So I'd say that's that's massive. And I know with the league the deals that they're doing as well, the broadcast figures that are coming through on the back of Abu Dhabi, there's serious, you know, growth in Europe.
And of course, the trick is to keep going. You know, I know the plans that the league have got in terms of new venues, how to make the league more efficient, new teams coming in. It's really, really exciting and great for the sport of sailing. What would you most like to see happen in the next year or so? Well, the league's concern,
00:14:26.560 — 00:15:34.620
I guess from my probably more of a macro perspective it would be the broadcasting is really key. Of course it is. When you look at any professional sports league circuit, It's about the broadcasting numbers and you've got to have that growth. And the league does have that. How does it develop that, you know, whether it's in the different regions.
And I think when you look at some of the statistics, some regions you wouldn't necessarily expect to be that high are and others that you think, well, you know, that's a really strong sailing nation. They should be doing much better. Why are they not so? I know that's a real focus for again, for Russell and the rest of the team at the league to get on top of that.
Of course, at the moment SailGP is sort of the main sailing proposition that's out there. But the cup. So the subject of the the America's Cup, which is kind of the thing that everyone wants to ask you about first when they speak to you at the moment. But I thought it was important to talk about what happened this past weekend or the past, the past few days.
That's right with GP first. But let's get to the subject of the cup. Done deal?
00:15:36.900 — 00:16:54.730
I think so, yeah. Yeah. Which is incredible in itself for the cup. The history of the cup. We all know that 1851 when it takes all. And now that's changed and I think for the better, because you can't really survive in that mold of when it takes all the. Certainly in the last ten years or so it's been dwindling.
And you get to the point where Team New Zealand to survive, have to start taking the event offshore. So then you get away from hosting it and you know, the the winning team's home port. So that's kind of shift. And we're seeing that across all global sports that they're getting. There have to be commercial or they die.
And that's the same with the America's Cup. And I think this gives it a real massive shot in the arm. So we're talking here about this partnership deal that has been struck between the sort of founder members of this of this partnership arrangement. And I mean, is the purpose of the partnership. We'll talk about the sort of, you know, what the perceptions might be of this, but is it to ensure the longevity of the Cup?
Would the America's Cup have continued beyond this, this previous cycle that we've just had, if this partnership deal had not been signed?
00:16:56.130 — 00:17:24.770
Arguably not. I mean, we're in a challenging position as challenger record as we have been for this last cycle. And, you know, just Kiwis have won for the third time in a row. Amazing achievement. But, you know, really struggling to see where does it go next. And how does this commercial how does the cup become more commercial.
Would it have survived another cycle? Probably, yes. Would it have survived another, you know, 3 or 4 cycles? Who knows?
00:17:25.810 — 00:18:46.330
Anyway, the reality is that we've created this partnership, I think, for much for the betterment of the America's Cup. And this is now about how do we create a sustainable sports product that gives the cup the opportunity to survive another 175 years or whatever it is. So it's, uh, it's going to be a challenge bringing these teams together in partnership to develop the the event both on and off the water.
But I think it's very much needed. How did you bring Grant Dalton to this, to this table? I mean, without him, it's not happening. He's the defender. He has the keys to the castle and fundamentally gets to make that call as to whether this is or isn't a goer as far as a partnership agreement is concerned. But hard thing to come to the table and you're the guy that's got it all.
Yeah it is. And credit credit to him and Team New Zealand for seeing that opportunity. It's really fascinating. A lot of discussion of course, is about the America's Cup. So many sailing fans passionate about the history of the sale of the America's Cup. But actually, when you delve back into Barcelona or even before Barcelona, I mean, I remember having a conversation with Grant and, uh,
00:18:47.530 — 00:19:18.810
you know, give friend out a formula One about come on, we need to have a look at this. We've got to properly try and get on to get to grips with the commerciality of this thing. And I know a lot of the other teams involved were pretty much actually all of the teams, other teams in Barcelona were having similar conversations.
And then during the event, actually there were some some meetings that were hosted by by Doug de Vos. Uh, there were other meetings that were hosted by different individuals. But again,
00:19:20.010 — 00:21:26.919
all of the teams were were with the same mind that we need to do something here. You know, we've got an incredible event. It's got so much history, so much prestige. But, you know, where do we go from here? Because this isn't really sustainable. And and, you know, now we're at the point that we've got all those teams that are committed to the partnership moving forward.
So I think that says a lot about everyone's enthusiasm to really, you know, get to grips with this and do something. What do you know on the inside of the cup, having had a cup team at the last three cycles and other cup teams in a similar position that people on the outside don't recognize about the stresses and strains of running a cup team and why it requires a partnership.
Well, it's always been the case that you have a defender and a change of record. The defender is really in the hot seat and they are defining the strategy of the event where it is, when it is, what the rules. Then you have the challenge of record, which is effectively but what our organization has been for the last two cycles, and they have the opportunity to get involved in those discussions, but they're kind of playing catch up to a certain extent.
Then you have all of the other teams who really are playing catch up, and I think it's kind of got to the point now that everyone's lost enthusiasm for that structure. And when you've got a team as good as Team New Zealand are and people are looking at saying, well, you know, surely they've fudged it, surely they've bent the rules in their favor to win three times in a row.
And having been the person on the other side of that negotiation, I can tell you they they really haven't. They've just been bloody good. I mean, I would say they're arguably the best team in the history of the Cup, but nevertheless it creates an environment of kind of mistrust and disillusionment that why why can't we be competitive.
And ultimately
00:21:28.080 — 00:24:15.459
the event needs to become more sustainable financially. It needs to be cheaper to participate. It needs to still be cutting edge technology, and I don't think it can lose that sort of technological competition, that formula. Formula one has been so successful with. And we need that in the sport of sailing.
So I think it very much has its place alongside SailGP. I mean, no one can argue that SailGP hasn't been a huge success and really earnt its place right at the top of the sport. But America's Cup is a different competition. I think, you know, you can liken it to the Ryder Cup or something like that, or, you know, it's a sport that's got real, um, prestige and special event status.
We've talked about how SailGP is a really obvious investable product now. Is the Cup now an investable product? Was it investable before in the way it is now? Absolutely I think so. And I think it is. It is. It is an investable product. Now the American. Yeah I mean the difference he's looking at the America's Cup to say SailGP.
SailGP is a franchise model and proven to be a really successful franchise model. America's Cup. It's a it's a partnership. So ultimately the teams, the founding teams will all own an equal share in that partnership. Uh, that's just pluses and minuses. But ultimately, the plus side is that you're this is an event with incredible heritage, prestige, and if you can do a good job and really maximize the potential that it has, then those teams, not only they're the individual team's values, but also their shareholding in the partnership should be really valuable in the future.
Can you run something like this by committee? I mean, you're talking about people with seriously big pockets, deep pockets who've been mega successful in business personally. Um, a lot of wealth, swilling around a lot of opinions swirling around. Just give people an insight to what those conversations have been like to get this over the line, because it's taken a long time.
Yeah. It's been it's been bloody hard and kind of somewhat understandably so, because like you say, you've got all this history, you've got 170 odd years of history, you've got a lot of opinions, you know, valid opinions. Teams that have won the cup recently won the Cup before, um, been hugely successful in other sports or other walks of life, other businesses and you know, understand we all have valid opinions and trying to get that across the line, it's been incredibly hard.
I mean, there's been some really, really tough conversations, but we're there. And
00:24:17.220 — 00:24:54.430
now ultimately the the partnership will be run by a professional management group. You know, there'll be a board of the teams, but the management of the event will be both on and off. The water will be neutral, and that's the first time that's ever happened in the cup. And I think that is what is the shift that's needed to really maximize the potential in the event.
What do you see your role as having been in the last like 12 months, in terms of getting this to a point where it is now a reality? How would you kind of reflect on that?
00:24:57.590 — 00:24:59.830
I could get multi-faceted.
00:25:00.950 — 00:25:17.229
I probably could be a little bit careful, I say at this point, but no, it's it's it's it's it's been it's been challenging bringing everyone together. And you know, like always you can look back in the last 12 months say, I might have done a few things differently, but
00:25:18.430 — 00:27:28.240
ultimately we are we are now there. And that's taken, you know, a lot of, um, patients. Um, a lot thick skin and a lot of symptoms, a lot of late night phone calls to New Zealand. But yeah, we've it's been it's been a learning experience, let's put it like that. How do you I mean, when we get to the point where it is finally Christmas and you can kick back on a sun lounger and sort of park some of this.
That'd be nice. How are you? How were you sort of reflect on what you've done because you've obviously I mean, there's no going back from here. This is now this is the cup moving forward. I mean, it's a huge seismic shift for the competition. And there's no there's no going back from it. So how do you reflect on on what needs to be delivered to make that call a successful one.
Yeah. Look I think it's it's needed. And there are going to be traditionalists who disagree and don't like it. And I think we should be sailing around in class yachts and all the rest of it. But Ultimately I think they're, they're they're wrong and or the the people racing in Barcelona last year also think that this is where we need to go.
So we've just got to crack on and absolutely make the most of that potential. I mean, there will there will be some people who say, oh, um, this is a direction of travel that was never intended for the Cup. And for 170 years, it's run perfectly well as a competition which retains a USP in global sport, which it does as having this sort of mystique around it, which makes it special, which makes it a marquee special event, kind of a sport.
Um, it won't it won't have that same thing going for it. It'll have a whole other load of positives, obviously coming, coming to the fore. But are you are you aware of that. Are you, you know, do you feel that quite keenly? Yeah for sure. I'm cognizant of all of the opinions out there. Like I said, I'm convinced that this is what needs to happen to the event.
Otherwise, it is just going to, very sadly, slowly slip away.
00:27:30.240 — 00:28:50.220
Pretty much every other major sporting competition in the world is evolving, has had to evolve. When you look at the advent of social media, the attention spans of generations of sports fans now, you cannot sit still in sports world as it is now. You will die. So if you want the America's Cup to be something that just people play out every now and then and sailing around in very beautiful looking yachts, that gave, you know, walking speed and specs out in the distance, well, fine, but it won't be a sporting event that it's taken seriously anymore.
So yeah, it's it's it's a brave call. It's a tough, tough one to make. But again, I come back to the fact that all of the other teams sat there in Barcelona. or at exactly the same view. Bloody hell. We've got to do something here and fast. So the only fly in the ointment, I guess, is how you dovetail with what is a very successful current global traveling circus of a series in SailGP.
Because as far as I can tell, you're pretty much the only sailor of that caliber other than Goody Paul Goodison who hasn't got a drive in SailGP. So what do you do for drivers for the Cup teams?
00:28:52.060 — 00:28:54.700
How's that going to work? Has anyone thought about that?
00:28:57.220 — 00:31:44.510
I'm not. I'm not sure what the point is around SailGP, but, um, anyway, the point. No, but it's a really realistic concern that if there are going to be 15 races of a SailGP calendar and the cup becomes a biennial event, sorry, you're talking about the defected sailors and how can they compare? Like the cup becomes a biennial event and you've got 15.
Where are you going? Me and goody. Because last time goody and I raised each other was in 1996 or 2000. Was Barcelona. When he was for American Magic. And you were your team? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, maybe. There we go. Um. Can't believe it's easily forgot that. Um, but the point the point being is that, look, there's a hell of a lot of amazing talent in SailGP.
Do you need to be doing SailGP before you can do these cup boats? Or can you just skip to it? From Olympic class to the cup boats? I mean, how are you going to find the talent to sail these cup boats when the SailGP season's super busy? Yeah, I mean, it's very different now, whether it's America's Cup or SailGP, that transition for talented young sailors or talented Olympic sailors is so much more straightforward than it was when I was looking.
Getting involved. The America's Cup, sailing a laser, for example, back with Paul Goodison in 2000 to the America's Cup that took many years to understand the match racing game and sailing these boats. that were 35 tons and just big lead mines. Now they're high performance. You're going from high performance to high performance and okay, there's a team element, but it's much more straightforward.
You know in terms of the events. There's definitely a job to be done to make sure that the events surging America's Cup are complementing one another, rather than fighting over sailors and fighting over schedules. How do you make that work out with the schedule? To my mind, it's really clear America's Cup is the special event status in sailing.
It's the Ryder Cup, it's the football World Cup. However, when you compare it and certainly is the Formula One circuit, it's the Champions League. That's the, you know, 15, 20 events a year globally. And if we look at it that way, then the two events should really complement each other and gives us the best sailors in the world, the opportunity to race into really complementing series.
And that's if we do a good job of that. You know, the whole sport, both events are going to really benefit from that and create something that we've all. You know, since I was a kid growing up getting into sailing, it was always a real challenge to get people to understand the sport to to maybe follow it. And now we're getting audiences.
You know, last SailGP event in Abu Dhabi, I think 4 million viewership. That's, as I understand it, arguably the highest watched sailing race in history. And that's the opportunity that we've got now.
00:31:46.030 — 00:31:50.150
Have you big question chosen your sailing team
00:31:51.190 — 00:31:53.710
for Cup World. No.
00:31:54.950 — 00:32:23.370
What's the sticking point. There isn't really a sticking point. It's just understanding the schedule and understanding you know, who the right people who obviously had a great squad last time. I think we'll see a lot of the same faces on the boat again. Uh, maybe some changes. Um, but, uh. Yeah. Still to be defined.
Are you one of those changes or are you putting yourself on the boat?
00:32:25.290 — 00:32:28.530
Quite possibly one of those changes. I don't know. Time will tell.
00:32:30.330 — 00:32:40.769
Still so elusive. Still. But what are the considerations you have to make when considering that when weighing that up? Well, for starters, really important that my wife thinks
00:32:42.770 — 00:33:05.450
that's the first time that she heard you actually say that out loud. So that's nice to hear. Yeah. Finally, we walked into that one nicely. Yeah. Uh, no. I mean, joking aside, you know, I'm obviously got a, you know, you've got a great family set up in 48 years old. Uh, you know, I've got a hell of a lot going on in terms of business side of of the sport.
So,
00:33:06.690 — 00:33:09.530
you know, can I offer anything to to the team?
00:33:10.770 — 00:34:12.850
You know, it's it's kind of actually it's not really my decision. It's other people's decision. And if I can contribute, if I can help in any way, um, then, then I will. But at the same time, like I said, I've got more than enough on otherwise. It's a bit of a dilemma, though, isn't it? When you come to think of it, because, you know, like we've said earlier, there's only a handful of people that are really good out on these boats, of which you're one of them.
So you know that it's your team, um, taking it forward. Um, you know, most people would expect you to put yourself on the boat. And I know you talk about the fact that, well, I'll do what's right for the team. What would be right for you? Because you signed off in Barcelona with a really historic placement, which hasn't happened before.
Um, and, you know, obviously went around close to the Kiwis and the final but didn't ultimately clinch it but got close. So what, you know, how do you feel. Where's your head up. Yeah I mean ultimately it was frustrating to get to the final not win it. And again credit to the Kiwis.
00:34:16.330 — 00:34:44.569
I. There were lots of quite a few. Including yourself a lot of people asking me. Was that the end of it in Barcelona. But for some reason it wasn't. It didn't feel like that was the right thing. You know, it wasn't. Also, I didn't really want it to be about the last thing we had from Barcelona was was me retiring.
You know, it was a great achievement for the team. And it kind of felt like it wasn't it wasn't really the right, the right thing. So
00:34:46.330 — 00:35:33.260
are you still are you still? I think the reality is I probably won't won't sail in and in Naples. But will that be. Will that be a regret if you don't? To not sign off the way you wanted to sign off. Yeah. Of course. I mean, the regret will be not winning the cup in Barcelona. But, I mean, you know, this isn't the perfect world that we live in, is it?
So, you know, it kind of is what it is. I don't know what to give that percentage split in terms of whether will he or won't he? I'm not sure which side that's that's really coming down on. We'll have to revisit that at a later. I don't know. I mean, it sounds really corny. I know people just think, oh that's that's rubbish.
But he's honestly. And actually when we started the team back in 2014, I remember some people saying, oh, are you gonna steer the boat or are you going to even be on the boat?
00:35:34.300 — 00:35:39.620
Uh, it's the same answer. Then I'll do whatever is the right thing for the team. And
00:35:40.660 — 00:35:58.620
I've had to make some really tough decisions for the team in terms of other people on the boat. But also, you know, we've got a fantastic coaching team. Rob Wilson leads that, you know, at any time before that he said to me, look, Ben, you know there's someone you're not up to it. You're not. But I would have
00:35:59.860 — 00:36:49.280
that would have been, that would have been it. So it's not it's not just my decision. There are a lot of people involved in that. And That's the way it has to be. Can you win the next one? There's not a lot of time. There's not a lot of time left. It's taken a really long chunk of time out of this cycle, debating, conjecturing about this partnership agreement.
Meanwhile, the Italians have been quietly going about their business and are fully funded and have a direction of travel that's in the right direction. Um, the Kiwis obviously doing the same thing. So that leaves everybody else to effectively, like you say, play catch up. Are we going to be we're in a transitional phase as it is anyway.
Are we going to be competitive enough to win it?
00:36:50.880 — 00:37:15.260
Yeah, I think we've got a chance. Obviously it's been tough the last 14 months is, you know, we've singlehandedly had to had to fund this thing. Uh, we managed to keep a core technical group together really critically. So we've been working on designs and ideas around designs with what the rule changes look like they're going to be for the boat, but we haven't been operating at the level of the narrator and the Team New Zealand.
00:37:16.340 — 00:37:19.420
What can we do in these 12 months?
00:37:21.500 — 00:37:35.820
Yeah, that's the that's the key to it. You know, clearly we've got a great package. We've got a great team on and off the water. The team that I expect that will come, you know, the sailing team that we'll be able to bring back to the fore. So
00:37:37.100 — 00:38:12.200
yeah I definitely put us in the dark horse category. But I wouldn't say it's impossible. I guess I'd like to sort of end this podcast by returning to a question I normally ask people right at the very beginning of it when they're first coming on, but I think it's actually quite relevant for you. Um, and good to sort of revisit this.
And this is how we sort of round things off. Defining moment of the year. What would you say it's been? There have been quite a few seismic moments, but what what would you say has been the sort of defining one that you could put a pin in and say, actually, from that moment, everything else came, came for.
00:38:16.840 — 00:38:22.000
I probably can't answer that question because really, the defining moment should have been this last weekend in Abu Dhabi.
00:38:23.320 — 00:38:39.800
But, you know, there had been, like I said earlier, there'd been some plenty of ups and downs this year and some really critical moments in terms of getting this partnership across the line. Yeah, I think the whole the whole year has been one massive roller coaster ride. But
00:38:40.960 — 00:39:40.649
between Abu Dhabi getting this partnership across the line, finishing off on, you know, really, really positive note and looking forward to strong 26 and beyond. Yeah. Do you know what mine is? If I was reflecting on this last year, having kind of had half a glass to the wall, listening in on all of these conversations and sort of trying to pick out what is or isn't happening.
Um, and like you say, things seem to progress and then regress. Very. It's like two steps forward, one step back, two steps for one. Anyway. Feels like feels like, you know, now, now that is sorted and it is sort of going in the right direction. I think that Abu Dhabi weekend is the seismic moment, because I think it's a the kind of the, you know, the shift that the whole team needed to be positive about what comes next.
Yeah, I think you're probably right. Yeah, I put that down. And that's a very positive note to end things on. All right. Back to your whiskey and whatever it is water. Or is it apple juice. Apple juice. I've got a bit of a cold. So this is actually a brandy. So
00:39:41.690 — 00:39:48.850
there we go. Mine however, is just a sparkling water. All right. Brilliant. Cheers. Cheers for big year. Good health. Cheers, everyone.
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