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Okay, this is the Performance People podcast in partnership with JP Morgan. Um, and today's guest
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is none other than my husband, Ben Ainslie. We are fresh. I say we're fresh. We're not really fresh,
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but we are back, at least from a really exciting time in Abu Dhabi, where Emirates
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GBR clinched the sell GP series championship. In fact, we won loads of stuff. We won
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that particular weekend and the flagship grand finale, we won the Impact League whilst we win, win something
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else. We won season well, yeah, we won the whole season, which is obviously so a major. Yeah, I
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guess you could call that a triple. It's a treble. It's a triple treble. So, um, how are you feeling
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after all of that? I mean, everyone's hangovers have subsided and the reality has set in that
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it's the end of another busy year. But I mean, what a result. No, it was an incredible event. And what a
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performance from the team it was. It was difficult certainly on Saturday. Not a lot of wind and saw a
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big turnaround in the fleet. You know the the teams at the top of the table maybe being a
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little bit conservative. Obviously keeping an eye out on who could make it into that top three for
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the grand final. So we saw not unusual teams at the front. Denmark in particular sell
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brilliantly through through the weekend. Red Bull Racing with Phil Robertson on the on the helm
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driving. Um you know had a big step up in performance and also Mubadala you know Brazil you
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know in a lighter air as we saw them USA. So some of the teams that have struggled a bit this
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season coming to the fore. But yeah the grand final what a race. I mean that was one of the the
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all time greats for SailGP. I mean that's sort of a race like you say. I mean, when they happen in
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SailGP, they're really spectacular. But this was a race where, you know, over the course of the
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entirety of its duration, the lead just kept on changing. He did. It did.
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And you did. I mean, we do see that a lot with this racing on these tight race courses. Aussies nailed
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the start ourselves and the Kiwis a little bit back. I think we did a really nice job to split
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away. And for me, a lot of people talk about the Windward Gate as being the deciding moment in the
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race. I actually think it was the leeward gate before that. And, you know, our team just did a
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really nice job to come in, give themselves an option. And they did what we call it, a sort of JC
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maneuver, which is this sort of tack around the leeward gate managed to keep on the foils in
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these sort of light conditions, and that then split them from both Australia and New Zealand
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and gave them all the options, which then came to four at the top gate. So it was it was really
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fascinating. And ultimately a lot of it came down to being in the right place at the right time. Of
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course, how the wind played out on that final downwind leg before the turning, turning mark to
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the finish, and it just fell into place for our team. But you know what? They really deserved it.
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They sell brilliantly all season. They really, you know, put it all down on the table and,
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um, came away with a win. Um, watching you watch that race was sort of a spectacle in
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itself. Um, and, and I think there's two parts to this question. The first part is, um, you
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know, what was running through your mind as you were watching the action unfold on the racecourse,
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but also like, how did it feel for you not being in that boat? Because I know, I know, it's been, you
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know, a tricky, a tricky year in that regard where you sort of stepped away from it. Dylan taken it
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forward and done an amazing job, and we'll talk about that job that he's done in just a moment.
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But just talk about, from your perspective, what it feels like to watch your team out there
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contesting for those wins. Well, all I can tell you is it's way harder watching than it is competing.
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So I got that feeling. So for all of those all of those parents and family members and fans out
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there that have been pulling their hair out for years on end, watching their loved ones out there
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competing, or the team that they really support and really want to win. Oh, what a nightmare. I mean,
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your emotions are all over the place. It's. You were miked up. Well, yeah, it's quite. And
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there was some, some great comments being thrown at me left, right and center. So it was, uh, it was a
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really you know, it was I think it was, it was, it was emotional. What can I say? Yeah, it was a bit
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emotional because it's been a really sort of tricky, torrid and quite tumultuous year that, you
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know, that team and, you know, us personally have gone through as well. So to end it on a high was
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obviously really, really meaningful and obviously meant a great deal to a lot of people. The job
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that Dylan's done over the course of this year, just to sort of explain his contribution to the
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team. Well, incredible. A massive ask first off, to come into a team
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where Giles had come in last season. Done a really good job, had,
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you know, a few ups and downs but done a good job. Then Dylan being asked to step in this season and
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straight off the bat came out with a win in Sydney and I think they were in a top three in
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the first three events they competed, which sort of a little bit of a honeymoon phase if you like.
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Then inevitably a few say wobbles set in, but you know, there were just a few slip ups
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so mid-season not great. And then did a really good turnaround. Got their act together the
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final half of the season. Pretty much super consistent right at the top. And like I say, sort
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of deserved to be the overall seasonal leaders if you like. And you know a lot of
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that is is credit to Dylan. You know, coming in, being able to really show some leadership.
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I think he's learned a lot from the involvement with the Cup team as well. So that and then of
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course just the team around him both on on the water but also off the water support. You know, Rob,
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Rob, Rob Wilson, Ben Cornish, Nick Robbins in the coaches booth. Those guys have also played a
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really key role in in supporting the sailors. And it's great to see that team come together and
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develop the way they have. What about it? What is it in his character that sort of gives him that
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sort of confidence, I guess, to throw himself into the deep end and, and
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really ferociously attack what's in front of him. What is it about him? What's in him that you
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recognize and see? You know, there's a leader there. Well, look, I think he's a fighter first and
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foremost. Yeah. Desperately wants to win. Like all top performers do. I think
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definitely an element after being taken out of SailGP in season one. They wanted to prove
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to everyone, you know, just remind people what happened there. That took him off the boat. And
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because it's all part of his story and part of the reason why this season with him helming the
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boat was so spectacular and resulting in a win. Yeah. Well. Okay then. Well, ultimately we or I
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took him out of the GBR team, which was slightly acrimonious at the time. And I do remember having
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a conversation where I. So what but what led up to that? What was the thinking behind that? What
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happened? Well, well, Dylan and his team got involved with he was flying with GP for
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GBR in season one and they didn't have a great season. And that was, you know,
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probably just down to getting used to the boat. And there were a lot of things going on in the
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season. One was certainly expecting a fledging circuit And then we had
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the opportunity to get involved with some sponsorship. And so we we ultimately took that,
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which unfortunately for Dylan and the team around him, meant that a lot of those people, um, you know,
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lost their seat on the, on the team, on the boat. So I phoned up Dillon the right, which, of
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course, is the right thing to do. An awkward conversation, as you expect. And, you know,
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understandably, he was seriously pissed off. And that which wasn't a you basically wasn't a
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surprise on the boat, right? That's right. Yeah. So it wasn't a surprise to me. So it never to be that
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he was always going to be pissed off and rightly so. And, you know, as I said to him at the time, look,
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I understand your position, but all I can tell you, my advice, having, you know, been around for a bit
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is that none of us know how this is going to play out. And I understand where you're at, and let's
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just see what happens in the future. Now here we are, some four, four years later or whatever it is,
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and he's SailGP champion. Now, I'm sure he probably would have preferred it to have been a different
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route, but you never know. Actually, having had that chance taken away from him, you know, he had to
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really go away and earn it and fight for it. And, you know, to his credit, he really did fight for it.
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And, you know, I think to answer your previous question, that is part of what drives Dylan to
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want to be successful is to prove to the world just what a great sailor he is. And, you know, he
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did that this weekend alongside the rest of the team. Yeah, we're going to start to see, I suspect
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as SailGP grows and as more teams come to the table and, you know, there's more driver spots
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available, I suppose what we're going to start seeing is, you know, some drivers are set apart
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from others. There will be the likes of Tom Slingsby, Pete Burling, Dylan Giles all playing at
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the top of the table. What are their common traits? Would you say? What do they have most in common?
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Yeah, I would say right now you have maybe a handful of, of of what you saw your, your
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superstar drivers and they are probably game changers. And then you've got another group who
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are close to that. But you know, for a reason, not quite there. And then you've got some new people
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coming in driving these boats. And and also, let's not forget, it's not just about the drivers. I mean,
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the flight controllers, the wings. I mean, everyone on this flight commander's is my dad, flight
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commander, Flight Commander Parkinson. It's absolutely critical. But, I mean, every role is
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really critical. You know, there's not one role on these boats. If you're not delivering, you're going
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to let the rest of the side down. So of course there's a lot of emphasis on the drivers, but it's
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it's a real team game. Also in the what we call the adrenaline lounge at, um, at these big cell
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GP weekend events. I guess if you're liking it formula one, it'd be the Paddock Club, something
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like that. But where all the sponsors go, where all the money is in the adrenaline lounge, watching
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the sort of spectacle over the weekend, and it is kind of like squeaky bomb time on a Saturday when
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there's no wind and you're thinking, oh my God, like, how are we going to entertain these people
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and showcase to them what this sport can really be like, you know, with decent conditions. But on a
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Sunday you've got everything you wanted in those conditions, in those moments, you looking around
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the room at the sponsors that are alongside you and thinking, oh, thank goodness for that. And
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actually this could lead to literally some really serious, serious deals being done. But yeah, of
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course. And it's a commercial sport and we need those partners to reach our budget to, you know, be
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able to compete, etc., etc.. Actually, it's interesting because on the Saturday we didn't
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have great conditions and I know the league, you know Russell Coutts running the league. Seriously
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frustrated because they've got such a great package and then the wind doesn't deliver. And
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this is the final and end end. But actually the majority of the people there still said, wow, that
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was still great racing. It was amazing to see the boats as close as they were. And there was I think
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there were a few collisions and there was lots of action. But of course we all closed the sport, know
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what it can be and desperately want it to be and someday, you know, did deliver and the boats were
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foiling and it was that much better. But yes, the commercial side of it is is is just as
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competitive as it is on the water. And there are some fantastic brands now involved with
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SailGP, you know, the very highest level of global sports with SailGP. And that says a lot about the
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league and where it's going in the future. Yeah. What I mean, when you think back, it's sort of in
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its fifth season now. Well, it's about to tip over into the sixth season any time soon. Um, but, you
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know, you think about the journey that it's been on and what Larry Ellison and Russell Coutts have
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been able to put together in that league. I mean, you know how serious a sporting prospect is it
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now? I mean, it's it's serious. It's really serious. I mean, just off
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the back of this last weekend, we potentially, you know, sign three significant
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sponsors off the back of that. Okay. Maybe they would have signed anyway but certainly didn't
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hurt the fact we came away as a as a as champions. And you know we're going to be
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a considerably inconsiderable profit next season. I mean, I've been involved with professional
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sailing for 30 years pretty much, and I've never had a profitable team. So I'd
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say that's that's massive. And I know with the league the deals that they're doing as well, the
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broadcast figures that are coming through on the back of Abu Dhabi, there's serious, you know,
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growth in Saudi Yippee! And of course, the trick is to keep going. You know, I know the plans that the
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league have got in terms of new venues, how to make the league more efficient, new teams coming
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in. It's really, really exciting and great for the sport of sailing. What would you most like to see
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happen in the next year or so where the league's concern. I guess from my probably more of a
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macro perspective it would be. The broadcasting is really key. Of course it is. When you look
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at any professional sports league circuit, it's about the broadcasting numbers and you've got to
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have that growth. And the league does have that. How does it develop that, you know, whether it's in
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the different regions. And I think when you look at some of the statistics, some regions you
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wouldn't necessarily expect to be that high are and others that you think, well, you know, that's a
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really strong sailing nation. They should be doing much better. Why they're not. So I know that's a
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real focus for again for Russell and the rest of the team at the league to get on top of that. Of
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course, at the moment SailGP is sort of the main sailing proposition that's out there. But the
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cup to the subject of the the America's Cup, which is kind of the thing that everyone wants to ask
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you about first when they speak to you at the moment. But I thought it was important to talk
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about what happened this past weekend or the past, the past few days. I think that's right with GP
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first. But let's get to the subject of the Cup. Done deal? I think so,
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yeah. Yeah. Which is incredible in itself for the cup. The history of the cup. We all know that 1851
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winner takes all. And now that's changed. And I think for the better.
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Because it can't really survive in that mold of when it takes all the. Certainly in the last
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ten years or so it's been dwindling. And you get to the point where to New Zealand to survive. Have
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to start taking the event offshore. So then you get away from hosting it and you know the the
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winning team's home port. So that's kind of shifted. And we're seeing that across all global
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sports that they're getting. There have to be commercial or they die. And that's the same with
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the America's Cup. And I think this gives it a real massive shot in the arm. So we're talking
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here about this partnership deal that has been struck between the sort of founder members of
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this of this partnership arrangement. And I mean, is the purpose of the partnership. We'll talk
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about the sort of, you know, what the perceptions might be of this, but is it to ensure the
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longevity of the Cup? Would the America's Cup have continued beyond this, this
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previous cycle that we've just had, if this partnership deal had not been signed? Arguably not.
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I mean, we're in a we're in a we're in a in a challenging position
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as challenger of record as we have been for this last cycle. And, you know, the Kiwis have
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won for the third time in a row. Amazing achievement. But, you know, really struggling to see
00:16:47.750 --> 00:16:53.989
where does it go next. And how does the commercial how does the cup become more commercial. Would it
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have survived another cycle? Probably yes. Would it have survived another, you know, 3 or 4 cycles? Who
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knows? Anyway, the reality is that we've created this partnership, I think, for
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much for the betterment of the America's Cup. And this is now about how do we
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create a sustainable sports product that gives the Cup the opportunity to survive
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another 175 years or whatever it is. So it's it's going to be a challenge bringing
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these teams together in partnership to develop the the event both on and off the water, but I
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think it's very much needed. How did you bring Grant Dalton to this, to this table? I mean, without
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him, it's not happening. He's the defender. He has the keys to the castle and fundamentally gets to
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make that call as to whether this is or isn't a goer as far as a partnership agreement is
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concerned. But hard thing to come to the table and you're the guy that's got it all. Yeah it is. And
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credit. Credit to him and to New Zealand for seeing that opportunity. It's really
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fascinating. A lot of discussion of course, is about the America's Cup. So many sailing fans
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passionate about the history of the sale of the America's Cup. But actually, when you delve back
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into Barcelona or even before Barcelona, I mean, I remember having a conversation with Grant and, uh,
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you know, good friend out of Formula One about come on, we need to have a look at this. We've got
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to properly try and get on to get to grips with the commerciality of this thing. And I know a lot
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of the other teams involved. Well, pretty much actually all of the teams, other teams in
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Barcelona were having similar conversations. And then during the event, actually there were some
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some meetings that were hosted by, by Doug de Vos. There were other meetings that
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were hosted by different individuals. But again, all of the teams were
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were were the same mind that we need to do something here. You know, we've got an incredible
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event. It's got so much history, so much prestige. But, you
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know, where do we go from here? Because this isn't really sustainable. And and you know, now we're at
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the point we've got all those teams that are committed to the partnership moving forward. So I
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think that says a lot about everyone's enthusiasm to really get to grips with this and do something.
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What do you know on the inside of the cup? Having had a cup team at the last three cycles, and other
00:19:32.830 --> 00:19:38.989
cup teams in a similar position that people on the outside don't recognize about the
00:19:39.270 --> 00:19:46.108
stresses and strains of running a cup team and why it requires a partnership.
00:19:46.590 --> 00:19:51.790
Well, it's always been the case that you have a defender and a change of record. Our defender is
00:19:51.790 --> 00:19:58.068
really in the hot seat and they are defining the strategy of the event where it is, when it is, what
00:19:58.069 --> 00:20:03.149
the rules. Then you have the challenge of record, which is effectively but what our organization
00:20:03.150 --> 00:20:08.069
has been for the last two cycles, and they have the opportunity to get involved in those
00:20:08.069 --> 00:20:13.309
discussions, but they're kind of playing catch up to a certain extent. Then you have all of the
00:20:13.310 --> 00:20:18.829
other teams who really are playing catch up. And I think it's kind of got to the point now that
00:20:19.150 --> 00:20:25.180
everyone's lost enthusiasm for that structure. And when you've got a team as good as Team New
00:20:25.180 --> 00:20:31.978
Zealand are, and people are looking at saying, well, you know, surely they've fudged it.
00:20:32.020 --> 00:20:38.059
Surely they've bent the rules in their favor to win three times in a row. And having been the
00:20:38.060 --> 00:20:42.379
person on the other side of that negotiation, I can tell you they really haven't. They've just
00:20:42.379 --> 00:20:48.419
been bloody good. I mean, I would say they're arguably the best team in the history of the Cup,
00:20:48.859 --> 00:20:54.938
but nevertheless it creates an environment of kind of mistrust and
00:20:55.740 --> 00:21:01.459
disillusionment that why why can't we be competitive? And
00:21:02.019 --> 00:21:08.899
ultimately the event needs to become more sustainable financially. It
00:21:08.900 --> 00:21:14.579
needs to be cheaper to participate. It needs to still be cutting edge technology. And I don't
00:21:14.579 --> 00:21:21.019
think it can lose that sort of technological competition, that formula. Formula one has been so
00:21:21.020 --> 00:21:26.859
successful with. And we need that in the sport of sailing. So I think it very much has its place
00:21:27.140 --> 00:21:32.939
alongside SailGP. I mean, no one can argue that SailGP hasn't been a huge success and really
00:21:32.939 --> 00:21:38.060
earnt its place right at the top of the sport. But America's Cup is a different competition. It's
00:21:38.060 --> 00:21:44.979
match racing, okay. Might have some fleet racing in it in the build up. But it's the teams.
00:21:44.979 --> 00:21:50.899
The technology of the teams, you know is is, you know developed. It's different. The boats are
00:21:50.900 --> 00:21:57.739
different. And that's I think that the, the history of that
00:21:58.420 --> 00:22:05.379
is really what, um, you know, sets it apart. And I think, you know, you can liken it
00:22:05.379 --> 00:22:11.899
to the Ryder Cup or something like that, or, you know, it's a sport that's got real, um,
00:22:12.099 --> 00:22:18.539
prestige and special event status. We've talked about how SailGP is a really
00:22:18.699 --> 00:22:25.300
obvious investable product. Now Is the cup now an investable product? Was it
00:22:25.300 --> 00:22:32.179
investable before in the way it is now? Absolutely I think so. And I think it is it is
00:22:32.180 --> 00:22:36.379
an investable product now. Yeah I mean the difference is looking at the America's Cup to say
00:22:36.419 --> 00:22:41.818
SailGP is SailGP is a franchise model and proven to be a really successful franchise model.
00:22:42.219 --> 00:22:47.459
America's Cup, it's a it's a partnership. So ultimately the teams, the founding teams will all
00:22:47.459 --> 00:22:54.019
own an equal share in that partnership. Uh, that's just pluses and minuses. But
00:22:54.060 --> 00:23:00.939
ultimately the plus side is that you, this is an event with incredible heritage, prestige, and if
00:23:00.939 --> 00:23:07.859
you can do a good job and really maximize the potential that it has, then those teams, not
00:23:07.859 --> 00:23:13.699
only their the individual teams values, but also their shareholding in the partnership should be
00:23:13.699 --> 00:23:18.618
really valuable in the future. Can you run something like this by committee? I mean you're
00:23:18.619 --> 00:23:25.459
talking about people with seriously big pockets, deep pockets who've been mega successful
00:23:25.459 --> 00:23:31.939
in business personally. Um, a lot of wealth swilling around, a lot of opinions swirling
00:23:31.939 --> 00:23:38.779
around. Just give people an insight to what those conversations have been like to get this
00:23:38.780 --> 00:23:45.619
over the line, because it's taken a long time. Yeah. It's been it's been bloody hard and kind of
00:23:45.660 --> 00:23:50.979
somewhat understandably so, because like you say, you've got all this history, you've got 170 odd
00:23:50.979 --> 00:23:56.979
years of history. You've got a lot of opinions, you know, valid opinions. Teams that have won the cup
00:23:56.980 --> 00:24:03.579
recently won the Cup before, um, being hugely successful in other sports or other walks of life,
00:24:03.580 --> 00:24:09.179
other businesses and, you know, understandably all have valid opinions. And trying to get that across
00:24:09.180 --> 00:24:16.139
the line has been incredibly hard. I mean, there's been some really, really tough conversations, but
00:24:16.139 --> 00:24:23.099
we're there and. now ultimately the the partnership will be run by
00:24:23.140 --> 00:24:29.979
a professional management group. You know there'll be a board of the teams, but the management of the
00:24:29.979 --> 00:24:35.659
event will be both on and off. The water will be neutral, and that's the first time that's ever
00:24:35.660 --> 00:24:41.780
happened in the cup. And I think that is what is the shift that's needed to really maximize the
00:24:41.780 --> 00:24:48.299
potential in the event. What do you see your role as having been in the last like 12 months, in
00:24:48.300 --> 00:24:55.259
terms of getting this to a point where it is now a reality? How would you kind of
00:24:55.300 --> 00:25:02.019
reflect on that? I could, I could multifaceted,
00:25:03.140 --> 00:25:09.098
I probably could be a little bit careful what I say at this point. But no, it's it's, it's, it's it's
00:25:09.099 --> 00:25:14.819
been it's been challenging bringing everyone together. And you know, like always you can look
00:25:14.819 --> 00:25:21.739
back in the last 12 months, They might have done a few things differently, but ultimately we are
00:25:21.739 --> 00:25:28.179
we are now there. And that's taken, you know, a lot of, um, patience,
00:25:28.859 --> 00:25:35.779
um, a lot of thick skin and a lot of things and a lot of late night phone calls to New
00:25:35.780 --> 00:25:41.780
Zealand. But yeah, we've it's been it's been a learning experience, let's put it like that. How do
00:25:41.780 --> 00:25:46.779
you. I mean, when we get to the point where it is finally Christmas and you can click back on a sun
00:25:46.780 --> 00:25:53.139
lounger and sort of park some of this. That'd be nice. How were you? How were you sort of reflect on
00:25:53.780 --> 00:25:58.098
what you've done because you've obviously played I mean, there's no going back from here. This is
00:25:58.099 --> 00:26:04.739
now this is the cup moving forward. I mean, it's a huge seismic shift for the competition. And
00:26:04.739 --> 00:26:10.459
there's no there's no going back from it. So how do you reflect on on what needs to be delivered
00:26:10.459 --> 00:26:17.459
to make that call a successful one. Yeah. Look, I think it's needed, and there are going to
00:26:17.459 --> 00:26:22.219
be traditionalists who disagree and don't like it. And I think we should be saving around in G-Class
00:26:22.260 --> 00:26:28.459
yachts and all the rest of it. But ultimately I think they're they're wrong. And or
00:26:28.900 --> 00:26:35.899
the the people racing in Barcelona last year also think that this is where we need to go. So we've
00:26:35.900 --> 00:26:41.459
just got to crack on and absolutely make the most of that potential. I mean, there will there will be
00:26:41.459 --> 00:26:47.579
some people who say, oh, this is the direction of travel that was never intended for the Cup. And
00:26:47.579 --> 00:26:54.379
for 170 years, it's run perfectly well as a competition which retains a USP in
00:26:54.380 --> 00:27:00.459
global sport, which it does as having this sort of mystique around it, which makes it special, which
00:27:00.459 --> 00:27:07.339
makes it a marquee special event, kind of a sport. Um, it it won't, it won't have that
00:27:07.339 --> 00:27:13.019
same thing going for it. It'll have a whole other load of positives obviously coming to the fore.
00:27:13.020 --> 00:27:19.099
But are you. Are you aware of that? Are you? You know, do you feel that quite keenly? Yeah. For sure.
00:27:19.100 --> 00:27:25.979
I'm cognizant of all of the opinions out there. Like I said, I'm convinced that this is what
00:27:25.979 --> 00:27:32.979
needs to happen to the event. Otherwise it is just going to, very sadly, slowly slip away. Pretty
00:27:32.980 --> 00:27:37.819
much every other major sporting competition in the world is evolving, has had to evolve. When you
00:27:37.819 --> 00:27:44.699
look at the advent of social media, the attention spans of generations of sports fans now, you
00:27:44.699 --> 00:27:51.540
cannot sit still in sports world as it is now. You will die. So if you
00:27:51.540 --> 00:27:58.219
want the America's Cup to be something that just people play out every now and then and sailing
00:27:58.219 --> 00:28:04.419
around in very beautiful looking yachts, that gave, you know, walking speed and specs out in the
00:28:04.419 --> 00:28:10.660
distance, well, fine, but it won't be a sporting event that it's taken seriously anymore. So
00:28:11.500 --> 00:28:17.818
Yeah, it's it's it's a brave call. It's a tough, tough one to make. But again, I come back to the
00:28:17.819 --> 00:28:24.019
fact that all the other teams sat there in Barcelona all at exactly the same view.
00:28:24.660 --> 00:28:30.818
Bloody hell. We've got to do something here and fast. So the only fly in the ointment, I guess, is
00:28:30.819 --> 00:28:37.339
how you dovetail with what is a very successful current global traveling circus of a series in
00:28:37.339 --> 00:28:44.179
SailGP. Because as far as I can tell, you're pretty much the only sailor of that caliber
00:28:44.220 --> 00:28:51.219
other than Goody Paul Goodison who hasn't got a drive in SailGP. So what do you do for drivers
00:28:51.220 --> 00:28:56.939
for the Cup teams? How's that going to work? Has anyone thought about that?
00:28:59.420 --> 00:29:05.899
I'm not. I'm not sure what the point is around SailGP, but um, anyway, the point. No, but it's a
00:29:05.899 --> 00:29:12.259
really realistic concern that if there are going to be 15 races of a cell GP calendar, and the cup
00:29:12.259 --> 00:29:16.859
becomes a biennial event. Sorry, you're talking about the fact that the sailors and how can they
00:29:16.860 --> 00:29:21.540
get if the cup becomes a biannual event and you've got 50 wondering where you're going with
00:29:21.540 --> 00:29:27.379
me and goody, because last time goody and I raced each other was in 1996 or 2000, was the laser of
00:29:27.420 --> 00:29:34.379
Barcelona when he was for American Magic. And you were your team? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. There we go.
00:29:34.380 --> 00:29:39.979
Um, I can't believe you easily forgot that. Um, but the point, the point being is that, look, there's a
00:29:39.979 --> 00:29:46.379
hell of a lot of amazing talent in SailGP. Do you need to be doing SailGP before you can do these
00:29:46.380 --> 00:29:51.579
cup boats? Or can you just skip to it? From Olympic class to the cup boats, I mean, how are you going
00:29:51.579 --> 00:29:57.819
to find the talent to sail these cup boats when the SailGP season is super busy? Yeah, I mean, it's
00:29:57.820 --> 00:30:03.219
very different now, whether it's America's Cup or SailGP, that transition for talented young sailors
00:30:03.219 --> 00:30:07.939
or talented Olympic sailors is so much more straightforward than it was when I was looking,
00:30:07.939 --> 00:30:13.419
getting involved. The America's Cup, sailing a laser, for example, back with Paul Goodison in 2000
00:30:13.699 --> 00:30:18.539
to the America's Cup that took many years to understand the match racing game and sailing
00:30:18.540 --> 00:30:24.059
these boats that were 35 tons and, you know, just big lead mines. Now they're high performance.
00:30:24.060 --> 00:30:28.019
You're going from high performance to high performance and okay there's a team element but
00:30:28.020 --> 00:30:34.139
it's much more straightforward. You know in terms of the events. There's definitely a job to be done
00:30:34.140 --> 00:30:39.219
to make sure that the events Sergio America's Cup are complementing one another rather than
00:30:39.219 --> 00:30:43.699
fighting over sailors and fighting over schedules. How do you make that work out of your schedule? To
00:30:43.740 --> 00:30:49.380
my mind, it's really clear America's Cup is the special event status in sailing. It's the Ryder
00:30:49.380 --> 00:30:55.738
Cup, it's the football World Cup. How when you compare it and so do you. Piers is the formula one
00:30:55.739 --> 00:31:02.540
circuit. It's the Champions League. That's the, you know, 15, 20 events a year globally. And if we look
00:31:02.580 --> 00:31:07.539
at it that way, then the two events should really complement each other and gives us the best
00:31:07.540 --> 00:31:14.379
cities in the world, the opportunity to race into really complementing series. And that's if we do a
00:31:14.379 --> 00:31:20.099
good job of that. You know, the whole sport, both events are going to really benefit from that and
00:31:20.100 --> 00:31:25.499
create something that we will. You know, since I was a kid growing up getting into sailing, it was
00:31:25.500 --> 00:31:30.939
always a real challenge to get people to understand the sport to to maybe follow it. And
00:31:30.939 --> 00:31:36.859
now we're getting audiences. You know, last SailGP event in Abu Dhabi, I think 4 million
00:31:37.060 --> 00:31:43.540
viewership. That's, as I understand it, arguably the highest watched sailing race in history.
00:31:43.979 --> 00:31:50.499
And that's the opportunity we've got now. Have you big question
00:31:50.540 --> 00:31:57.458
chosen your sailing team for Cup World. No. What's
00:31:57.459 --> 00:32:02.739
the sticking point? It wasn't really a sticking point. It's just understanding the schedule and
00:32:02.740 --> 00:32:09.459
understanding, Ending. You know who? The right people. Who obviously had a great squad last time.
00:32:09.459 --> 00:32:15.979
I think we'll see a lot of the same faces on the boat again. Uh, maybe some changes. Um,
00:32:15.979 --> 00:32:22.819
but, uh, yeah. Still to be defined. Are you one of those changes or
00:32:22.900 --> 00:32:29.779
are you putting yourself on the boat? Quite possibly one of those changes, I don't know.
00:32:29.819 --> 00:32:36.659
Time will tell. Still so elusive. Still. But what are the considerations you have to
00:32:36.660 --> 00:32:42.379
make when considering that when weighing that up? Well, for starters, really important that my wife
00:32:42.420 --> 00:32:48.499
thinks that's the first time I've actually heard you actually say that out loud, so that's nice.
00:32:48.979 --> 00:32:55.220
Yeah. Finally we walked into that one nicely. Yeah. Uh, no, I mean, joking aside, you know, I'm
00:32:55.379 --> 00:33:01.779
obviously got a, you know, you've got a great family set up in 48 years old. Uh,
00:33:01.980 --> 00:33:07.659
Yeah, I've got a hell of a lot going on in terms of the business side of the sport. So,
00:33:08.900 --> 00:33:15.219
you know, can I offer anything to to the team? You know, it's kind of actually it's not really my
00:33:15.219 --> 00:33:21.459
decision. It's other people's decision. And if I can contribute, if I can help in any way, um, then
00:33:21.700 --> 00:33:27.339
then I will. But at the same time, like I said, I've got more than enough on otherwise. It's a bit of a
00:33:27.340 --> 00:33:31.618
dilemma, though, isn't it? When you come to think of it, because, you know, like we've said earlier,
00:33:31.619 --> 00:33:35.179
there's only a handful of people that are really good out on these boats, of which you're one of
00:33:35.179 --> 00:33:42.179
them. So you know that it's your team, um, taking it forward. Um, you know, most people would
00:33:42.180 --> 00:33:46.780
expect you to put yourself on the boat. And I know you talk about the fact that, well, I'll do what's
00:33:46.780 --> 00:33:53.659
right for the team. What would be right for you? Because you signed off in Barcelona
00:33:53.660 --> 00:34:00.619
with a really historic placement, which hasn't happened before. Um, and, you know, obviously went
00:34:00.649 --> 00:34:06.369
around close to the Kiwis in the final, but didn't ultimately clinch it but got close. So what? You
00:34:06.369 --> 00:34:12.169
know, how do you feel? Where's your head at? Yeah, I mean ultimately it was frustrating to get to the
00:34:12.169 --> 00:34:18.769
final not win it. And again credit to the Kiwis. I
00:34:19.449 --> 00:34:25.369
there were lots of quite a few including myself. A lot of people asking me was that the end of it in
00:34:25.370 --> 00:34:31.449
Barcelona? But for some reason it wasn't. It didn't feel like that was the right thing. You know, it
00:34:31.450 --> 00:34:38.449
wasn't. Also, I didn't really want it to be about the last thing we had from Barcelona
00:34:38.449 --> 00:34:43.129
was was me retiring. You know, it was a great achievement for the team. And it kind of felt like
00:34:43.129 --> 00:34:49.969
it wasn't it wasn't really the right, the right thing. So I don't know, but I don't know.
00:34:50.010 --> 00:34:56.809
I think the reality is I probably won't, won't sail in Naples. But will that be. Will that be
00:34:56.809 --> 00:35:03.570
a regret if you don't to not sign off the way you wanted to sign off. Yeah. Of course. I mean, the
00:35:03.570 --> 00:35:08.648
regret will be not winning the cup in Barcelona. But, you know, this isn't the perfect world that we
00:35:08.649 --> 00:35:14.569
live in, is it? So, you know, it kind of is what it is. I don't know what to give that percentage
00:35:14.570 --> 00:35:19.850
split in terms of whether will he or won't he. I'm not sure which side that's that's really coming
00:35:19.850 --> 00:35:24.329
down on. We'll have to revisit that at a later I don't know, but I mean, it sounds really corny. I
00:35:24.329 --> 00:35:29.610
know people just think, oh that's that's rubbish. But it is honestly. And actually when we started
00:35:29.610 --> 00:35:33.009
the team back in 2014, I remember some people saying, oh, well, are you going to steer the boat or
00:35:33.010 --> 00:35:39.968
are you going to even be on the boat? And it's the same answer. Then I'll do whatever is the right
00:35:39.969 --> 00:35:45.769
thing for the team. And I've had to make some really tough decisions for the team in terms of
00:35:45.770 --> 00:35:51.809
other people on the boat. But also, you know, we've got a fantastic coaching team. Rob Wilson leads
00:35:51.810 --> 00:35:58.609
that. You know, at any time before that he'd said to me, look, Ben, you Me. There's someone. You're
00:35:58.610 --> 00:36:05.489
not up to it. You know, but I would have. That would have been. That would have been it. So it's
00:36:05.490 --> 00:36:11.530
not. It's not just my decision. There are a lot of people involved in that. And that's the way it has
00:36:11.530 --> 00:36:18.249
to be. Can you win the next one? There's not a lot of time. There's not a lot of time left. It's taken
00:36:18.249 --> 00:36:25.249
a really long chunk of time out of this cycle debating, conjecturing about this
00:36:25.249 --> 00:36:31.730
partnership agreement. Meanwhile, the Italians have been quietly going about their business and are
00:36:31.730 --> 00:36:37.889
fully funded and have a direction of travel that's in the right direction. Um, the Kiwis
00:36:37.929 --> 00:36:43.569
obviously doing the same thing. So that leaves everybody else to effectively, like you say, play
00:36:43.569 --> 00:36:49.449
catch up. Are we going to be we're in a transitional phase as it is anyway. Are we going
00:36:49.449 --> 00:36:55.610
to be competitive enough to win it? Yeah, I think we've got a chance. Obviously it's been tough for
00:36:55.610 --> 00:37:02.050
the last 14 months is, you know, we've singlehandedly had to had to fund this thing. We
00:37:02.050 --> 00:37:07.049
managed to keep a core technical group together really critically. So we've been working on
00:37:07.050 --> 00:37:12.209
designs and ideas around designs with what the rule changes look like they're going to be for
00:37:12.210 --> 00:37:17.530
the boat, but we haven't been operating at the level of being a racer and a Team New Zealand.
00:37:18.529 --> 00:37:25.449
What can we do in this 12 months? Yeah, that's the that's the key
00:37:25.449 --> 00:37:31.929
to it. You know clearly we've got a great package. We've got a great team on and off the water. The
00:37:31.930 --> 00:37:36.888
team that I expect that will come, you know, the sailing team that we'll be able to bring back to
00:37:36.929 --> 00:37:43.169
the fore. So yeah I definitely put us in the dark horse category. But I wouldn't say it's impossible.
00:37:43.729 --> 00:37:49.809
I guess I'd like to sort of end this podcast by returning to a question I normally ask people
00:37:49.810 --> 00:37:53.169
right at the very beginning of it when they're first coming on, but I think it's actually quite
00:37:53.170 --> 00:37:58.289
relevant for you. Um, and good to sort of revisit this. And this is how we sort of round things off.
00:37:58.330 --> 00:38:03.689
Defining moment of the year. What would you say it's been? There have been quite a few seismic
00:38:03.689 --> 00:38:09.169
moments, but what would you say has been the sort of defining one that you could put a pin in and
00:38:09.170 --> 00:38:14.408
say, actually, from that moment, everything else came, came for.
00:38:19.090 --> 00:38:22.609
I probably can't answer that question because really, they're defining my mission being this
00:38:22.610 --> 00:38:29.529
last weekend in Abu Dhabi. But, you know, there had been like I said earlier, there have been some
00:38:29.570 --> 00:38:33.969
plenty of ups and downs this year and some really critical moments in terms of getting this
00:38:33.969 --> 00:38:40.249
partnership across the line. Yeah, I think the whole the whole year has been one massive roller
00:38:40.250 --> 00:38:47.089
coaster ride. But between Abu Dhabi and getting this partnership across the line, finishing
00:38:47.090 --> 00:38:53.729
off on, you know, really, really positive note and looking forward to strong 26 and beyond. Yeah. Do
00:38:53.729 --> 00:38:59.330
you know what mine is? If I was reflecting on this last year, having kind of had half a glass to the
00:38:59.330 --> 00:39:03.850
wall, listening in on all of these conversations and sort of trying to pick out what is or isn't
00:39:03.850 --> 00:39:09.970
happening. Um, and like you say, things seem to progress and then regress. Very it's like two
00:39:10.009 --> 00:39:15.729
steps forward, one step back, two steps one anyway. Feels like it feels like, you know, now, now that is
00:39:15.730 --> 00:39:19.570
sorted and it is sort of going in the right direction. I think that Abu Dhabi weekend is the
00:39:19.570 --> 00:39:24.449
seismic moment, because I think it's a the kind of the, you know, the shift that the whole team needed
00:39:24.449 --> 00:39:31.049
to be positive about what comes next. Yeah, I think you're probably right. Yeah, I put that down. And
00:39:31.050 --> 00:39:35.649
that's a very positive note to end things on. All right. Back to your whiskey and whatever it is.
00:39:35.690 --> 00:39:41.809
Water. Or is it apple juice? Apple juice. I've got a bit of a cold. So this is actually a brandy.
00:39:42.249 --> 00:39:49.169
So there we go. Mine, however, is just a sparkling water. All right. Brilliant. Cheers. Cheers
00:39:49.169 --> 00:39:51.049
for big year. Good health. Cheers, everyone.
